Mitch Cronin Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Word has it that the term being looked at for contracts with the IAM is 7 years! The folks who think we'd sign on to that can go pound sand! Not a freakin' chance. Now stop playing such idiotic games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimer V Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Why would you say that.Whats the terms?We signed a 3 year extension on top of a 3 year deal in '89 for a total of 6 years.If it secures a future for myself and my pension without giving up the farm,then i'm all for it.Without giving up the farm is the key here It seems to be the new wave,at least in the states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted May 13, 2003 Author Share Posted May 13, 2003 Now for a guy who's already making as much as he could possibly ever hope to in his job, I don't wonder why you'd say that... But you see, some of us are NOT. Some of us, coincidentally, all of us in one particular field, don't believe our current situation is at all reasonable and are not willing to let it continue for 7 more years! Whatever needs to happen now has very little to do with what things will be like in 2 years. A 2 year contract should be plenty for the company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimer V Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted May 13, 2003 Author Share Posted May 13, 2003 ...tell them no! I don't expect any of us in maintenance will sign any contract for 7 years. Concessionary or not. The IAM can't be removed without a contract expiry, is one damned good reason. Another is that it's absolute foolishness to think the current status of air travel will be the same even a year from now, much less as many as 7! Not a flippin chance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GDR Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Hi Mitch If anyone is underpaid in our industry it's the AME. I agree. The trouble is, right now we are in survival mode. We need investors who are prepared to put big bucks into our airline which is part of an industry that is renowned for turning the wealthy into paupers. If they don't see long term stability it is unlikely that we will come out of this. It just might be that the alternative to a long term contract is a whole lot more undesirable. A couple of other thoughts on this. Seven years is a bargaining position. My guess is that when you have something to vote on it will be more like 5 years or possibly even 4. When these concessionary contracts are negotiated we should insist on a strong and viable profit sharing plan.(SAU's. SAR's, Stock, or stock options) If after a couple of years things haven't gone well, the profit sharing won't be worth much, but conversely the unions would be a very poor bargaining position anyway. If on the other hand the airline prospers, which I think it will, you might do a whole lot better with a strong profit sharing plan, than you would negotiating a new contract. IMHO Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Greg, could you just clarify a few things please. I understand stock and stock options but can't figure out what SAUs and SARs are. I assume that this is some sort of profit sharing? seeker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GDR Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 They're pretty much the same. Share appreciation units or share appreciation rights.. The ones we had before allowed us to receive cash for any amount that AC stock was over 7.50 whenever they were exercised. ie: If the stock was at 10.00 and you had 100 sau's you would receive $250.00 Those who cashed them in at $20.00 made out real well. Those of us who held on to the bitter end got nada. Such is life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Greg, In a perfect world you may be correct, but with the IAM being our bargaining reps, you and I both know that these bandits will sell maintenance down the river as they have for decades, in order to maintain higher standards of living for the non skilled that ride our coat tails.In doing so they also maintain the flow of dues to machinist bank accounts. You all have seen the comments posted in newspapers of Dave Ritchie's absolute stupidity,would you want an idiot like that bargaining for you, I think not!As a good friend once said to me,"absolute genius has its limits, where as stupidity has not" So to agree to a long term deal is just plain out of the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted May 13, 2003 Author Share Posted May 13, 2003 A smart lady taught me to never say never... and never say die. You could be right Greg, perhaps 4 years would go... I'd sure as hell have a hard time swallowing it, in fact my first reaction is to refuse anything longer than 2 years. ...but a profit sharing plan would help. Stability in this industry is a joke isn't it? Who could dream of it? And why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1pawn Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Anything more than 2 years for the AMEs will hurt the company more than any other single action. "If there is no hope, if there is no dream, there is only death." The backlash will be the scariest sight that they have ever witnessed. It will not be safe to fly on the New AC. There is always a breaking point and it is my strongest belief that this would be it for many just not a few AMEs. The question I have for negotiators both Union and Company is who will fix the aircraft properly? It won't be the majority of AMEs on the floor. Even the lower management will be distracted -from their own disillusions-enough that they will not pick up on these inactions. Don't Do It. Not all flights can return to station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cargo Agent Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 So you are suggesting that AME's would put people's lives in danger if it was a 6 year contract. "The backlash will be the scariest sight that they have ever witnessed. It will not be safe to fly on the New AC" Those are EXTREMELY strong words, and I suggest you reconsider that statement. Just my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 I for one would never stoop to that level, safety is of the utmost concern regardless of how ticked you are, but on the other hand, I can make it very difficult for that aircraft to leave the hangar let alone the ground.If you provoke me enough, I will work by the book to the last letter and I mean by the book, for those of you who remeber the RED DOG days, they can return in a heart beat.In the mean time, lets see how things play out in negots, we armchair quaterbacks can give all the insight we want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1pawn Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 I have seen first hand the kind of work that gets screwed up when AMEs are not focus on their tasks. Fortunately they are picked up on in time to correct them. I believe that this proposed contract would be such a distraction that the focus would not be there by many, thus the substantial increased chances of no-one picking up on the mistake before it is too late. I do not mean that this would be intentional. Human Factors training warns of the dangers of distractions. I chose the strong words because I believe this needs to be brought front and centre so that it can be prevented. My appologies for any misunderstandings. This was not a threat. It is just what I believe will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1pawn Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Robert, I am not on the same line of thinking as you. I am not talking about anyone doing anything on purpose. I think the ones making these mistakes that I am talking about would not even be aware that they are making them. That is the scary part. The mental state of an AME is as important as the mental state of a pilot with the exception that there is usually more AME around to watch out for the other guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted May 13, 2003 Author Share Posted May 13, 2003 Absolutely true, and thank you for pointing that out 1pawn! Unfortunately, it's hard to find people in this business who understand that concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 In the USA, the IAM has allowed separate bargaining units for airlines they represent,district 141 is broken into two units,141 for all non skilled positions and 141M for maintenance, so why is it too much to ask for the same here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 6to8mos Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 Whoa ... Ive done both jobs, an AME Crew Chief, and ,now a Captain. Straton was one instructer at Confederation "you have got to be able to look at yourself in the mirror" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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