dragon Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 Frosty, Perhaps I jumped on you a little quickly. I hate the blanket anti Jazz anti Westjet anti ramp ant pilot comments as much as you do, I just happen to be a pilot.. cheers. We do have some pilots that should be anywhere else in the world than the flight deck of an airplane. These guys are the ones that sit in CRM [Crew Resource Management – where we learn to get along with each other, among other things] with their thumbs up their asses, looking around like it’s about time they started to educate the whole world except them. We know who they are, senior guys bid around them, junior guys book off. These are far and few between, they are a dying breed. The only real reason I mention that is that every once in a while one of those guys comes on here trying to tell all you ‘lower forms of life’ [in his own mind anyway], how the world works. Please know that the vast vast majority of pilots are reasonable and appreciative of all people in our airline. Cheers again. At the Flight Operations road show we had in February in Toronto, Rob Guigere said a lot of things, two especially stuck in my head. The first was that FLT OPS was running as absolutely lean as possible. Being a pilot and understanding my little world fairly well, I was totally disappointed in this statement. Of course we now are starting to see a little of the inefficiencies starting to be corrected, there is a lot more to do. The other thing I left with that day was that the ramp in Toronto has been cut from 1250 to 900 ish [+/-]. Of course that is a very large part of your work force. He was very clear about that, he said to try to remember this and to thank a rampie the next time we see one.. I wish they knew the answers, I agree with you that some things, some people, some attitudes must change and must change quickly. Cheers for the third time. dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 Dragon: As I said things are said at times to provoke a response and once in a while when the rhetoric is done something constuctive comes of it. Like I said I have some very good friends that are pilots as a matter of fact I owe one my eternal gratitude for getting me in here. As with any type of large workforce anywhere in the world , you see all types, we all know they are there and we try to work around the naysayers. It has been pointed out to me but a close friend that on occasion these people need to be offended (political correctness goes too far sometimes) unfortunately others get offended with it , but in this kind of dialogue that can be explained. Last word ...little hint when you arr YYZ if no equip on gate chances are its bad planning if equip on gate is pointed out towards middle of ramp bad planning again . And last but not least if there is equip on the gate pointed towards the building with a tractor hooked up......bad crew. Cheers Frosty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Labtec Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 I hear you. I have spent time investigating this little problem and it is as result of a very poor management system. THE MATRIX!!! I am sure you have heard about this silly program. Its some VP's little baby and no one wants to let it go. You never blame the soldiers. The generals are the people that are accountable. At our end we have sent Hawkeye, and FCR after FCR regarding this situation. Do you know who our managers blame? Your union! Until someone steps up and takes account we are doomed. It is the poor workman that blames his tools and our managers always seem to want to blame their tools. If your contract rules are so bloody inefficient then why do they negotiate them that way? It makes no sense unless the people negotiating the rules don't have a clue. It really isn't rocket science. Get rid of the lead position and qualify everyone to marshall. You marshall and you smack up the Aircraft you're responsible. What is the big deal? This lead/rampie division of labour is incredibly artificial. It only means anything on pay day. We know everyday that what time 175 leaves for YWG or 172 arrives in YYZ. Get a crew to meet the plane. Ball park its going to be there +/- 20 minutes. instead of scheduling flights why not have you responsible for a section of gates/flights? I am sure it really isn't that difficult every other airport seems to do it. What do they do that's so different? Labtec Labtec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest soarcerer Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 >>"The reason that you have the time to discuss this is that you sit for many hours with nothing to do but watching the machine do its job, while the rest of the airline gets on with life."<< ______________________________________________ So using your logic, the surgeon is only working when he/she is cutting,... and Andretti is just a car driver! (everyone knows that anybody can learn to drive a car.)... and a highly trained AME is just another grease-monkey to you. ______________________________________________ I only drop into this site every now & then to see if things have changed much. I know that we shouldn't even reply to such posts. A person responding to your drivel may allow you a modicum of undeserved credibility. Cheque please! I'm oudda here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 But I heard that the degree of difficulty to provoke a bloke was inversely proportional to the length of his arms and the amount of hair on his knuckles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Nope: Now adays all you need is a sharp stick!!!!! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Labtec: We all know that the matrix is flawed we point this out to our managers everyday. You say get rid of the Lead....well with any crew situation there has to be a person in charge....now far be it for me to compare apples to oranges but you guys have a division up fron there called Capt...and F/O....inflight has a division called incharge. Now I agree anyone can wave in an airplane and as such I expect my crew to do just that if I am making a call to manpower or checking the load.....good crews do that. A lot of things have slipped out there on the ramp. But again it's not just us. By the way we do know about the Hawkeyes but they can be skewed....Working a flt on gate 209 I was on the gate checking my load for a 67 outbound...still waiting on the inbound I get a call from STOC stating that the flt is waiting off the gate ...where was I ....told them to swing the camera and I waved to them that I was on the gate and pointed to the fact that the flt was just turning off of DR....he had called as he rolled by on Delta but he could not see me as I was between equipment. Cheers Frosty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Labtec Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 The I/C thing is artificial as well. At United the F/A's tell that who ever is senior does the announcements. I still think the lead thing is a bit artificial, but at least allow the rampie to marshall in the Aircraft. The Captain F/O division is not a union thing like I/C and Lead. Its prescribed by statute and is a function of law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Labtec: We're dancing in circles here.....like I say I agree that every member of the crew should be able to marshal an acft..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CD Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 The Captain F/O division is not a union thing like I/C and Lead. Its prescribed by statute and is a function of law. Just a point of clarification. The designation of an in-charge flight attendant is prescribed by statute and is a function of law as well: Designation of Pilot-in-command and Second-in-command 705.103 An air operator shall designate for each flight a pilot-in-command and a second-in-command. Designation of In-charge Flight Attendant 705.105 An air operator shall, where a crew includes more than one flight attendant, designate an in-charge flight attendant. http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/regserv/carac/CARS/cars/705e.htm#705_105 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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