Guest WA777 Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 APA Quote: "I don't think anybody's thrilled with the significant pay cuts and furloughs ... but the alternative clearly would be even worse," union spokesman Gregg Overman said. Link to the whole article: http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/04/02/american.labor.ap/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCDU Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 The information ACPA had indicated that the company was headed for CCAA despite any concessions they may have wrung out of their employees. A concessionary deal was very close, in fact. It was rejected by the company because management would not take the same pay cut as their unionized employees. It appears that their course of action had been set for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GDR Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Hi MCDU ACPA's offer was contingent on all the other employee groups taking the same cuts. I assume that the company was not in a position to try and balance off every contract or pay schedule to ACPA's proposal. In my opinion ACPA should have made the proposal without worrying about what other groups did, be they union or management. No sense in rehashing it now. It's all water under the bridge and we will pay the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WA777 Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 From my own personal experience, you must avoid CCAA or bankruptcy at ALL COST...once there you lose control and give away any leverage you might have had...the employees and the unions become the victims, regardless of all their tough talk (Buzz)....if as you say management refused the same cuts demanded from the unions then I can honestly say there is something wrong with Milton's management and you rest assured the employees and retirees will be the ultimate losers. We shouldn't be here............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WA777 Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 How did we manage to end up in this position???..It almost seems that it was RM's game plan all along..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GDR Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Personally I don't agree with that assessment. I can't see a bankruptcy judge chnaging the base line in the way that you mentioned. The other problem is that proposal should have been made a month ago instead of waiting until the last possible minute when there was no time left to work with the proposal or to work with the other unions. It turned into the same old style of negotiating. Nothing gets settled until the last possible instant. This should have been a discussion of how to save our company and to protect our futures. Back at the beginning I and others said that it was better to give too much rather than too little. Well we gave too little and now we'll be giving a whole lot more. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCDU Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 That's not the way I read it, Greg. The latest bulletin talked about the proposal being communicated directly to RM. The statement that caught my eye was "He would not agree to the management concessions " Says a lot, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GDR Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 As I read the message our offer was contingent on management taking the same pay hit as what we did. I'm just suggesting that our offer shouldn't have had those kind of strings attached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCDU Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Greg, you yourself have admitted that the company's way of doing business no longer worked. Pilots taking a paycut would have slapped a bandage on a serious wound. We would have been taking an aspirin and crossing our fingers when there was no evidence that things were going to get any better. This trip to the doctor is probably the best thing for the airline. The medicine will be bitter and we will experience pain but at least at this point the patient has a good chance of survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chiselcharter Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 I agree, this was Milton's plan. He has thrown in his cards and is awaiting a reshuffling. It was bound to happen let's get on with it. I don't forsee long term pilot layoffs, if any. Milton will gets costs done then rapidly expand. To the younger pilots, congratulations. Us older folk have just hit our parents rationalization. They were big car, big cigar, our generation will pay for their overspeading and frivoulous lifestyles. No one said life was fair, it was a good run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr1 Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Bingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 You can only assume that if Milton survives this. There is a very good chance that the creditors will insist on new management. He would have known that, or would have been told that at least as often as he has told Pam Sachs that the world has changed. Maybe he was living in denial, like her. Only time will tell. But I have never known a company to plan for CCAA. Canadian Airlines never did go for CCAA did they? Did you ever wonder why? Well, you're all about to find out. I'd say liquidation is a 50-50 possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GDR Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 We weren't talking small cuts here. We were talking large cuts and productivity changes along with company plans to rebuild into a LCC. We'll still become a LCC but we will be paying a much higher price to get there IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flex Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 AMR Chief Executive Don Carty will take a 33 percent base pay cut and decline a bonus for the third consecutive year, the company said. He will also ask that the value of compensation packages for him and other senior officers be reduced significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GDR Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 That wasn't announced until after the APA made their agreement with AMR. Who knows what Milton would've done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WA777 Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 A clue for me was the F/As' contract with the "no layoff" clause. I just couldn't believe that management would agree to such a thing in this enviroment....I remember saying to my better half (a F/A)...there's something wrong with this picture...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 For the hundredth time, other unions had certain things, the mediator said to AC you have to offer these things to that group, too. Then the mediator wrapped them all up with a bow and called them his settlement recommendations. It was a package, take it or leave it. AC decided it was better to take the package than reject it. Maybe that was wrong, but it's also completely irrelevant now - mere second guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pull Up Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Greg, You can be pretty damn sure that Carty told APA that he would either equal or better their concessions. Like him or not, at least he showed enough leadership to get APA to agree to the large concessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skirt Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 The alternative to that contract was further labour disputes and disruptions. Something even more deadly to AC (at that time) than the contract that was signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchman Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 RM apparently told union officials that he would give up 33% of his own and 22% of virtually all other management salaries during the meetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.