Guest O. Ring Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 So here's the deal.... Milton has just popped by the house and handed you the helm of the ol SS Air Canada. All contracts are open you can reorganize as you see fit. So, what do you do? What do you keep and what do you ditch? How will your new airline look? Will you split it three ways.... international, domestic and regional or will you keep it as is? Widebody narrowbody RJ? What would you contract out? I can just imagine this whole thing being a project in an MBA program. Have at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimer V Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 First off.Get rid of the no layoff clauses.Get the number of employees to a level thats right for the job. Next. 50% of manegement out the door.Way to many are on they're little projects that they keep creating for themselves. Next start with a pay cut with the highest paid taking the biggest hit..Re:U.A.L. Do it soon,or there will be nothing to save The rest will fall into place when the other creditors realize that Air Canada is serious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stem Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Do you mean the highest paid give back a larger percentage or that the highest paid will obviously take a larger hit at the same percentage as everybody else? If it is the former, which I believe it is, how can you justify that? Typical Canadian attitude of "tax the rich so I can have a free ride" if you ask me...which I know you didn't but there it is anyway. There is a reason some people make more money than others and it doesn't come down to luck so quit looking for a saviour on the back of somebody else and get ready to contribute equally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimer V Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 So explain to me why a judge in the States saw it fit to use that formula when dealing with U.A.L.,oh wise one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say Altitude Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Great post stem. I concur about your logic about why some people make more money than others. The "woe is me - management should take the biggest hit" line is outdated and smacks of tunnel vision from those not in management. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in management but I'm getting bored of hearing how it's always managements fault and how they should be axed without any discussion about the other end of the business. Do you really think that those in management are ALL stupid? That they are ALL out to look for confrontation? That they'd rather fight with the employee groups than work with them? Say what you want, doing an MBA isn't a cake walk. These people aren't stupid and I'm sure have the best interests of the company at heart. These generalizations drive me crazy..... From these same people, you rarely hear about how the unionized groups could open their eyes and remove their own inefficiencies. IE. The 41 767 Capt's holding admin duties (a thread from a few days ago). Gimmie a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest woxof Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 30% paycut across the board. Contract out most baggage handling and probably some other other positions(pilot medical?). Have similar number of staff per aircraft as westjet(or would have if they had a similar operation). RJ's to Jazz. All scopes out the window. Layoffs by lowest person on aircraft type to prevent retraining costs. Government allowance to prevent contracts from preventing this. And probably more. The unions refused to negotiate with AC. So be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Ten percent from someone making 40k means you are cutting mortgage payments and groceries - ten percent from someone making 150k means they have to get a Honda instead of a Lexus. Give your head a shake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stem Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 I don't know for sure but it seems to me that the UAL pilots were some of the highest paid in the industry while the ground workers (I'm not even sure if they were UAL employees) were barely above minimum wage. Sliding that scenario across the border and applying that scenario to our pilots and ground workers, which I think is what your original post was getting at, sees AC pilots below industry standard (although higher than WJ) and the ground workers far ahead of US counterparts, the agents that check in WJ pax, and the Hudson General crew that pushes the aircraft back. That's why I think your idea is flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 You make it sound like vengeance... but whatever is negotiated has to make maximum sense for Air Canada's business plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ex-SkyGeek Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 PERFECT example as to why I feel it is important for unions to elaborate on their efforts to the media. This guy doesn't have a clue the lengths you were willing to go with management 2 days ago. Blanket statements like these are because of the lack of public understanding. They only get one side of the story from the media... the side who is willing to talk, and of course their words are gospel because there are no in-depth counter statements made by the unions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimer V Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Spoken like a true Jazz type.I bet you have all the answers to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 UAL pilots were the highest paid in the industry, their union even stated that they squeezed the last egg out of the golden goose,the ground workers are some of the highest paid in the USA, te one group who has taken the largest beating at UAL has been maintenance, the long standing war between maintenance and UAL continues today, a very sad situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Heh LTV Why not try something different for a change other than your usual mix of condescension, misinformation, sarcasm and misinformation. Jazz pilot, mainline pilot, Transat pilot, Westjet pilot, Canjet pilot... Herman nelsons are just one of the many things that the vast vast majority of Canadian pilots here in Canada and the world over, have in common. You may add our AMEs to that as well. For every pilot or three flying around, we had dedicated and talented engineers there with us, same school, same sandbox, same responsibility. Sales, Ramp, Management, IFS, neither of these groups engaged in the points made above. This is not a derogatory statement, just a few simple facts. Go ahead and take a genuine stab at the rest of Wedge's post. dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Heh LTV Why not try something different for a change other than your usual mix of condescension, misinformation, sarcasm and misinformation. Jazz pilot, mainline pilot, Transat pilot, Westjet pilot, Canjet pilot... Herman nelsons are just one of the many things that the vast vast majority of Canadian pilots here in Canada and the world over, have in common. You may add our AMEs to that as well. For every pilot or three flying around, we had dedicated and talented engineers there with us, same school, same sandbox, same responsibility. Sales, Ramp, Management, IFS, neither of these groups engaged in the points made above. This is not a derogatory statement, just a few simple facts. Go ahead and take a genuine stab at the rest of Wedge's post. dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimer V Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 It always amazes me how you people up at the pointy end of an airplane seem to think they have all the answers just because they have some diploma hanging on their wall.The best education is the type you learn out in the real world not in some class room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W5 Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 That real life experience is exactly what the previous posters are referring to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimer V Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 You have to admit with all the mud slinging going on here between the pilot groups that a lot of so called intelligent people don't come across as being very proffesional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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