Guest M. McRae Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 I must admit I am curious. Given that your skills are not limited to aviation, are there enough vacant jobs out there that the AME's from AC could / would be immediately employed? If so where (Canada or abroad?). Not razzing but curious. Thx in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Iceman; Very interesting comments. I'm not sure we have the social environment which is due for apocalyptic events such as the general strikes we saw earlier. Many people must first see what is happening as "abnormal" and it seems that most are willing to lay back and accept the atrophying of wages and working conditions that is occurring all around us, and again, dismiss discussions on these broad trends as left-wing rhetoric. (Certainly, part of this is due to "local" disturbances in the business climate and both layoffs and wage fluctuations will occur. Its trends that one must examine). What is encouraging is that so many mainstream publishers are now taking on what used to be "alternative" books. For example, for years, one simply could not buy anything by Noam Chomsky except in places like City Lights in San Fransisco and here in Vancouver, an alternate bookstore on Cordova, (if one risked the trip there at all). These days, Chomsky and dozens and dozens of other social observers who have begun writing can be purchased in the most staid of established businesses like Reisman's chain, Chapters, and in the US, (where Chomsky's books were banned and in the 60's, he was jailed for his participation in anti-war marches of those times) can be found at Barnes/Noble etc etc. It is interesting to discover that very little can be found in the used bookstores because people hang on to such stuff. As mentioned above, The Manchester Guardian, Harpers, The Economist, Foreign Affairs, even the Wall Street Journal and the Christian Science Monitor all make good room for discussions on social issues and their relationship to the technical notions of capitalism (because capitalism is a technique for making money and is not a strictly a social system). It has to be recognized that all this quietly rests upon a very strong, intense business lobby with corporate lawyers representing powerful interests, the focus of whom are lawmakers both in Parliament and in Congress. This is not news for anyone of course, and in fact is such an accepted, "ordinary" facet of our lives that we completely ignore it. But such advocacy is narrowly limited to ensuring that business-friendly laws are created, passed and supported in the courts. It is important for these kinds of enterprises that very little information reaches the public, and so "news" conferences are held to control the type, extent and accuracy of corporate information that the public is allowed to see. You see, unlike governments, private corporations, which are endowed with all the rights of a private citizen, are not subject to the Freedom of Information Act. Their power over public life and policy is almost absolute, but they remain unaccountable and uninspectable to those who's lives are deeply affected. We may have television cameras in Parliament and the Courts in some cases, but you will never see them in a Board Room. That is not necessarily bad for people and certainly corporate privacy needs are important in a competitive society, until it affects those who need help but are unable to bring the same intensity or power to lobbying efforts. That, of course, is an ironic statement! ... No such lobbying for social needs ought to be required: That's what government is for; to look after people. But not these days, where governments all over the world are shucking their original social responsibilities and handing them over to private enterprise, or "PPP's" - Public-Private Partnerships as the euphemism goes, the owners/employees of which are unelected, unknown and unaccountable to the people (the public) they are supposed to serve. Lobbying or even petitioning for information or change in those kinds of circumstances and from those PPP's is like trying to find a human being on the end of a business or government telephone line. It is easier to dismiss small voices than large ones. In such views, it is important to have a population which is compliant, unquestioning, not widely read, supplicant and distracted, the latter accomplished either through fear as we have seen lately, or through the attractiveness of vegging in front of "Friends", "Seinfeldt", the latest war program from CNN, or the other war programs such as WWF, Junkyard "Wars", hockey (of which I'm a great fan), or other vicarious experiences like Survivor. Regardless, in a democratic society, unlike a dictatorship where social control is blunt and overt, control must be exercised in other, less obvious ways. This is done in a hundred different ways, and in many venues. In the past, I have posted an outline of a propaganda model first discussed by Herman and Chomsky in which it is outlined how priorities within the media emerge. There is no coercion as such, but, for example, the loss of advertising revenue, the potential for "flak" from high-ranking business or government officials, pressures on owners and so on. For anyone who followed the firing of the Ottawa Citizen's publisher of 30 years, Russell Mills and other "events" within the Canwest media empire will understand how such control works very well. Much is available on how and why this is done and I have listed a number of references. These are not fringe views of a few dissident anarchist wackos...these views are being widely expressed in print, and are growing in mainstream awareness as more and more people fall victim to the Ken Lays, the Ebbers', the Skillings' etc etc of the corporate world. In fact, it is a bit ironic that for those working for large organizations, their chief traditional worries concerning home break-ins and carjackings among the usual social crimes one may expect to fall victim to, may be misplaced and the ones who really bear watching are the top managment in charge of their own company. While that is very likely not the case in the vast majority of organizations keeping in mind that the spectacular does stand out especially in the Excited States, can ordinary employees really be blamed for wondering about their individual futures, especially given the knowledge that pension funds and plans are "in trouble" in many places and that "special arrangments" beyond have been part of executive packages? Clearly its complex and a public forum is a difficult place to flesh out the argument because it gets kind of thick and perhaps boring for many. But these ideas are important if one wishes to have one's eyes "wide open" all the time. Notwithstanding all this, we do have fun at home... Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Iceman; Very interesting comments. I'm not sure there exists the social environment needed for apocalyptic events such as the general strikes we saw last century. Many people must first see what is happening as " abnormal " and in need of radical change. We're not there. It seems that most are willing to lay back and accept the atrophying of wages and working conditions that is occurring all around us, and again, dismiss discussions on these broad trends as left-wing rhetoric. (Certainly, part of these losses are due to " local " disturbances in the business climate and both layoffs and wage fluctuations will occur. Its trends that one must examine). What is encouraging is that so many mainstream publishers are now printing what used to be " alternative ""alternative" books. They're selling, and well. For years, one simply could not buy anything by Noam Chomsky except in places like City Lights in San Fransisco and here in Vancouver, an alternate bookstore on Cordova, (if one risked the trip there at all). These days, Chomsky and dozens and dozens of other social observers who have begun writing can be purchased in the most staid of established businesses like Reisman's chain, Chapters, and in the US, (where Chomsky's books were banned and in the 60's, he was jailed for his participation in anti-war marches of those times) can be found at Barnes/Noble etc etc. It is interesting to discover that very little can be found in the used bookstores because people hang on to such stuff. As mentioned above, The Manchester Guardian, Harpers, The Economist, Foreign Affairs, even the Wall Street Journal and the Christian Science Monitor all make good room for discussions on social issues and their relationship to the technical notions of capitalism (because capitalism is a technique for making money and is not a strictly a social system). It has to be recognized that all this quietly rests upon a very strong, intense business lobby with corporate lawyers representing powerful interests, the focus of whom are lawmakers both in Parliament and in Congress. This is not news for anyone of course, and in fact is such an accepted, "ordinary" facet of our lives that we completely ignore it. But such advocacy is narrowly limited to ensuring that business-friendly laws are created, passed and supported in the courts. It is important for these kinds of enterprises that very little information reaches the public, and so " news " conferences are held to control the type, extent and accuracy of corporate information that the public is allowed to see. You see, unlike governments, private corporations, (which surprisingly are endowed with all the rights of a private citizen), are not subject to the Freedom of Information Act. Their power over public life and policy is almost absolute, but they remain unaccountable and beyond public inspection by those who's lives are affected. Such power is called "totalitarian" in governments, but it is accepted as "normal" and even encouraged. We may have television cameras in Parliament and the Courts in some cases, but you will never see cameras in a Board Room. That is not necessarily bad for people and certainly corporate privacy needs are important in a competitive society, until it affects those who need help but are unable to bring the same intensity or power to lobbying efforts. That, of course, is an ironic statement! ... No such lobbying for social needs ought to be required: That's what government is for; to look after people. But not these days, where governments all over the world are shucking their original social responsibilities and handing them over to private enterprise, or "PPP's" - Public-Private Partnerships as the euphemism goes, the owners/employees of which are unelected, unknown and unaccountable to the people (the public) they are supposed to serve. Lobbying or even petitioning for information or change in those kinds of circumstances and from those PPP's is like trying to find a human being on the end of a business or government telephone line. It is easier to dismiss small voices than large ones. In such views, it is important to have a population which is compliant, unquestioning, not widely read, supplicant and distracted, the latter accomplished either through fear as we have seen lately, or through the attractiveness of vegging in front of "Friends", "Seinfeldt", the latest war program from CNN, or the other war programs such as WWF, Junkyard "Wars", hockey (of which I'm a great fan), or other vicarious experiences like Survivor. Regardless, in a democratic society, unlike a dictatorship where social control is blunt and overt, control must be exercised in other, less obvious ways. This is done in a hundred different ways, and in many venues. In the past, I have posted an outline of a propaganda model first discussed by Herman and Chomsky in which it is outlined how priorities within the media emerge. There is no coercion as such, but, for example, the loss of advertising revenue, the potential for "flak" from high-ranking business or government officials, pressures on owners and so on. For anyone who followed the firing of the Ottawa Citizen's publisher of 30 years, Russell Mills and other "events" within the Canwest media empire will understand how such control works very well. Much is available on how and why this is done and I have listed a number of references. These are not fringe views of a few dissident anarchist wackos...these views are being widely expressed in print, and are growing in mainstream awareness as more and more people fall victim to the Ken Lays, the Ebbers', the Skillings' etc etc of the corporate world. In fact, it is a bit ironic that for those working for large organizations, their chief traditional worries concerning home break-ins and carjackings among the usual social crimes one may expect to fall victim to, may be misplaced and the ones who really bear watching are the top management in charge of their own company. While that is very likely not the case in the vast majority of organizations keeping in mind that the spectacular does stand out especially in the Excited States, can ordinary employees really be blamed for wondering about their individual futures, especially given the knowledge that pension funds and plans are "in trouble" in many places and that "special arrangements" beyond have been part of executive packages? Clearly its complex and a public forum is a difficult place to flesh out the argument because it gets kind of thick and perhaps boring for many. But these ideas are important if one wishes to have one's eyes "wide open" all the time. Notwithstanding all this, we do have fun at home... Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Not a problem, Many of us came from the automotive industry, so that is an option as is industrial millwright, our AME time is accepted and credited towards your certification, I came close to accepting a position with the city hall in the city I live to be incharge of their vehicle maintenance (I should have taken it, danm fool), all of this is in CANADA, about a year ago Disney land was looking for maintenance people to maintain their rides, the add gave preference to holders of Canadian AME's, also any industry that uses industrial turbines is an option, same principal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 "I put that line in and I will stand behind it because unfortunately everyday I run into people like Robert who unfortunately always see the glass as half empty." By no means do I see the glass as half empty, I want nothing more than for this company to survive, I grew up in an AC family and have been around aircraft all my life and am still facinated when I see one rotate, I have bled (literally)for this company always hoping that things would improve and most times they did.I have seen in the last 17 years, my trade erode, my so called union do anything but represent my needs and management that I feel has no clue, if this is too much for you to handle, I do apologise, but these are my opinions, and I am entitled to them just as you are yours, but you will not see me telling you to take a gun and shoot yourself as you have advised me, I found it rather obscene,all because I do not share your view point, who says your view point is the correct one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted May 30, 2003 Author Share Posted May 30, 2003 Great point of view Don! As well, I have noticed that our society has become one that shuns social interaction. This has come from years of noting how people talk to each other in public places. IMO there are very few people left who can carry on an intelligent conversation. They prefer to talk in "lingo" on cellphones, text message, or email. We as a society are fast losing respect for one another and it shows. Road rage, not moving over on sidewalks, and especially the way you are handled by clerks in stores now. I see it not as the fault of society as much as it is the fault of parents who don't make the time to interact with their children. I know that everyone has job and other time constraints, yet as a parent that extra effort is needed to make sure that the next generation is properly "socialised". In volunteering in the Scout movement, I see it on a regular basis. Yet it is a joy to see the rare child who displays proper manners and who has the skills to talk to others. As you said, people would rather watch vacuous television than inform themselves with what is going on around them. And that is exactly what the leaders of today want. I just hope the message gets out sooner than later and that a difference can be made. Rgds... Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted May 30, 2003 Author Share Posted May 30, 2003 Robert It may have been a harsh response, but maybe it might illicit a response such as the one that the "Painless Pole" got in the original book of M.A.S.H. We are going through times now that have been extraordinary in creating stress levels, and I believe that the worst is yet to come. Not trying to be a nay-sayer, just looking at it realistically and trying to prepare myself for the future. I went back and read over the posts and at no time did I knock you opinions. It is in reference to the manner in which you put them forth that brought out that response. I deal with the same Union as you, and I have the same frustrations, but rather than allowing it to get me down, I return the grief to them through regular visits, phone calls, etc. As for working for this company, it has been a pretty good ride so far, but we all have to do what we can to support our families. If I have to take the big whack now to ensure that I can support mine, I will. I will also fight in the future to regain what I have lost, and if that is not possible, I will carry on and go elsewhere that will allow me to accomplish my goals. We're not at that point yet..... Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 In the case, you should be better off than some. Goodluck to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 I am not overly concerned, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 "I deal with the same Union as you, and I have the same frustrations, but rather than allowing it to get me down, I return the grief to them through regular visits, phone calls, etc." Iceman, with no disrespect intended, my frustrations with the IAM come from being constantly used as a negotiating tactic for the advancement of nonskilled labour, we in maintenance are the ace in the holes for the IAM when it comes to wage improvements for the nonskilled, as a result we suffer with lower wages compared to the industry average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted May 31, 2003 Share Posted May 31, 2003 Shut up you sound like a pilot,I'm skilled the unskilled folks are bringing us down give it a rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 1, 2003 Share Posted June 1, 2003 You are obviously one of those coat tail riders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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