Guest M. McRae Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 I have been following the treads re the salaries of the so called "unskilled" labour at AC. I thought the following goto might be of interest for those who are more deeply involved. The site will allow you to find the relative wage paid by labour category Alberta. http://roe-ab.hrdc-drhc.gc.ca/lmi/2001wagesurvey/index_e.cfm Those for Ontario can be found at: http://www.on.hrdc-drhc.gc.ca/english/lmi/eaid/occ.info/theme_e.html Those for Quebec can be found using the search engine at: http://www.qc.hrdc-drhc.gc.ca/html/recherche_e.asp Nova Scotia : http://www.ns.hrdc-drhc.gc.ca/english/LMI/Wage/Wage_Type.asp?cat=7 For other regions goto to the regional page and do a search for wages: http://www.hrdc-drhc.gc.ca/menu/profile-search.shtml#regions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WA777 Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 We all should try and get a job with the Ontario Government...G&M last week reported that now more than 12000 government employees make in excess of 100K...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimer V Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 Ticket and cargo agents-non airline.I think that's fair.So Air Canada is paying a little more then the idustry average.Good to see we are on par or just above the general poulation for the same work.Thanks for info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 You are welcome. Knowledge is afterall power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimer V Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 What i don't understand is that a lot of pilots don't think the un-skilled should be paid a living wage working for the airlines.We went on strike to get benefits that now so many enjoy not just the union people ie:dental plan,improved health benefits etc.Do pilots ressent the fact that we make to much,or they make to little.If its the latter then that is another issue,go on strike and fight for what you think you're worth.Its really simple.Now may not be a good time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 Perhaps the qualifications of an agent are being overlooked or not understood. Qualifications for hire: ? On the job skills & training: Cargo Agent would be a good example: - DG qualified and trained for acceptance - computer trained and qualified for AWB creation, pricing, tracking etc. - trained in AVI acceptance - trained re the acceptance of heavy cargo (load bearing comes to mind) etc. etc. etc. Just a thought. But I am sure those agents out there can compile a more complete list by category. Good luck in your attempt to educate others on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sleveen Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 just because you went on strike for it does not mean you deserve it, this is one of the reasons A/C is in the trouble its in. Everybody wants a bigger piece of the pie, just because group A gets payed 20.00 an hour everyone wants to make 20.00 an hour and if you dont get it you go on strike, to try and justify why you should make 20.00 soon contract after contract after contract and everyone is making 20.00 an hour and the companies going down the toilet. The crazy thing is, its human nature and its happening in every unionized industry, airlines , automakers, aircraft manufacturers etc. Where does it end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sleveen Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 And this justifies how much?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 DG qualified? Pilots get DG training in one day, they have the FINAL responsibility, I would think another 3 or 4 days would finish up the fine print. Computers? My six year old nephew could figure out a ‘fill in the blanks AWB’ while rippin and burnin a CD. AVI. Don’t know what that is. Load bearing? It’s on a graph Malcolm. We did load bearing on the Dash 8, it was a morning course. You ARE kidding? Thanks for re-affirming for me the extensive training required to be a load agent, consider me educated. How about we move onto something else now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest givemeabreak Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 That's why you get the fragile box on the bottom with the "this side up" arrow pointing down. (Yes, it really happened).... You could justify it, but there is no accountability these days. Try to get fired at AC.... nearly impossible. I mean having the arrow pointing down isn't the agents fault or the workers, it's managements. I don't know why, but it is always management isn't it? (tic). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimer V Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Oh there's more, but something tells me know matter what anyone here says about wages for un-skilled labour will not sway you but your right lets move on.How about something different like scope.You might know something about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimer V Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 You should worry about your job.You apparently have way to much down time.Fill out the hawkeye report and get on with your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 My posting was because I thought that those who put down another group should know a little more about what they are about before doing so. I am not defending the wages of agents or indeed those of pilots. However I will comment re DG training, the acceptance of DG training is a lot more involved that than given pilots (perhaps you might want to check out http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/commerce/manuals/18dgtraininge_/default.htm (section 8.3), you will note under training requirements the large number sections to be trained in by the acceptance staff vs those sections required of the Flight Crew. However my original post was only an attempt to give an example of what a Cargo Agent (CPAir Version) was trained to do. Perhaps the AC world is different. Re Arrows up or down, the agent who does the acceptance has little control over that after the initial acceptance. And no, I was not an agent at Canadian or AC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 My posting was because I thought that those who put down another group should know a little more about what they are about before doing so. I am not defending the wages of agents or indeed those of pilots. However I will comment re DG training, the acceptance of DG training is a lot more involved that than given pilots (perhaps you might want to check out http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/commerce/manuals/18dgtraininge_/default.htm (section 8.3), you will note under training requirements the large number of sections to be trained in by the acceptance staff vs those sections required of the Flight Crew. However my original post was only an attempt to give an example of what a Cargo Agent (CPAir Version) was trained to do. Perhaps the AC world is different. Re Arrows up or down, the agent who does the acceptance has little control over that after the initial acceptance. And no, I was not an agent at Canadian or AC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACAV Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Is MS Flight Simulator so difficult that your nephew may not be able to simultaneously be “rippin and burnin a CD”? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Re AVI, you should as this denotes Live Animal traffic and the flight deck is responsible for monitoring the environment in the cargo holds. The information was (perhaps this has changed) contained on the Notification to flight Crew (NOTOC). The same document that also records the presence of DGs, Value Cargo, HUMC etc. Load bearing has nothing to do with the Weight and Balance, it has to do with the floor bearing capability of the aircraft vs the actual footprint of a piece of cargo. Again a minor thing but quite costly if a piece of "Heavy" cargo ruptures the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Let me see if I have this right. MS flight simulator, AWB fill out lessons, sticking a pencil into a graph and following it to the end, a DG course, burning a CD and flying an airplane.. ah yes, I do now see your point. Silly me, thanks man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Here is an example of an NOTOC generated by ACARS (SAS Example but complies with the IATA/ICAO Standard) NOtification TO Captain The NOTOC is a message sent automatically at the same time as the Loadsheet. The NOTOC contains a specification of the materials on board that may require special handling or procedures in case of an emergency. The NOTOC is sent to the cockpit MCDU and is printed on the cockpit printer. Example of SAS' ACARS NOTOC format: SPECIAL LOAD NOTIFICATION TO CAPTAIN FROM FLIGHT DATE A/C REG STO SK9999 31JUN99 OYKXX FINAL EDNO 1 DANGEROUS GOODS TO AWB CL/ UN/ RSK PCS QTY/TI RRR PKG IMP CAO POS DV DV SUB CAT GRP 01 CHEESE XXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXX XXXX XXX XXX XXXXXXX XXX XXX XXX XXX XXXX 02 DIGESTIVE BISCUITS XXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXX XXXX XXX XXX XXXXXXX XXX XXX XXX XXX XXXX 03 BURGUNDY WINE XXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXX XXXX XXX XXX XXXXXXX XXX XXX XXX XXX XXXX OTHER SPECIAL LOAD TO AWB CONTENTS PCS QTY IMP POS 01 XXX XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXX XXXXXXX XXX XXXX 02 XXX XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXX XXXXXXX XXX XXXX 03 XXX XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXX XXXXXXX XXX XXXX 04 XXX XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXX XXXXXXX XXX XXXX 05 XXX XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXX XXXXXXX XXX XXXX THERE IS NO EVIDENCE………ON THE AIRCRAFT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Malcolm, We, on the 67, receive a PLD [preliminary] followed by a FLD [Final Load Data]. All load information is contained therein. We do not receive either AVIs, NOTOCs, HUMCs or cargo. [other than DG, size, REV# and location] I understand the difference between WB and LB [pounds per square inch v. loadbearing], as I said, we used to do it on the DHC8, I am sure there must be a program written for this function. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 I guess then your job must be easier than it used to be. If you don't know about the presence of AVI or other special cargo, who then determines the optimum hold temp.? Is it no longer controlled from the cockpit? Most aircraft allow a selected range of temp and airflow in the cargo compartments. The 767 that I was familiar with did. Thx in advance for the clarification. Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest George Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 The 767 cannot control the specific temperature. It's an ON/OFF switch. A thermostat maintains the temperature at approx 18° in the bulk cargo compartment with the Bulk Cargo Heat Selector in the Vent position. Otherwise the holds are kept at 7° Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Dragon..... This is, I think, what's been called "a mug's game"... you can't win it and to play it only risks exposing more to defend. There's a whole herd of people who think no one else can do their job the way they do it. And a bunch of folks who work at AC have never had any other job. Some of us know the truth and some don't. Best to leave it like that I guess. Cheers, Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Malcolm, NOTOC = Load agent DG Advice = Pilot Live comes in on the FLD. On every 67 AC operates, one switch will direct air, in addition to the FWD and AFT cargo, normally 45F (7c) to the BULK, where live is stowed, and heat there will be maintained at 'above approximately 65F (18c)` As for NOTOC, we refer to it as a Dangerous Goods Advice, we must confirm 5 separate pieces of information contained therein. respectfully dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 The DC10 had this cute little disk thingy with pictures on it that covered a hole when warm air wasn't needed... I remember reading a snag that read something like "Cargo heat disk changed to live animals" with a sign-off that still makes me laugh: "Live animals changed to dead" - referring to the pictures of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Is the Bulk Cargo Heat selector set from the flight deck or ??? I thought there was a high/low selection for cmpts. 1 2 3 and 4 but perhaps that varies by operator and the option package purchased. Of course my memory may be wrong also. Thx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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