Guest GDR Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 UAL positive Jan cash flow beat forecast -CFO Wed March 12, 2003 03:25 PM ET CHICAGO, March 12 (Reuters) - UAL Corp. UAL.N Chief Financial Officer Jake Brace said on Wednesday that wage concessions from labor unions helped bankrupt United Airlines turn in positive cash flow for the month of January, beating its own forecast. The company's January cash flow was a positive $1 million per day compared with its expectations of a negative cash burn rate of $10 million to $15 million per day, Brace said at a meeting of creditors in Chicago. Brace also said UAL expected to exceed its first target for EBITDAR, or earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, amortization and rent. The target was set up by the lenders of its debtor-in-possession financing. He attributed the phenomenon in part to interim wage reductions from labor groups that the company secured earlier than expected. Most of UAL's labor unions agreed to temporary pay cuts while they work out long-term deals, and a judge imposed the wage cuts on the holdout machinists union. UAL filed the largest bankruptcy in aviation history on Dec. 9. The airline also said on Wednesday it had a higher cash balance after its bankruptcy filing than it expected, in part due to fewer passengers booking on other airlines than originally forecast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pat Reid Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Sorry GDR, I agree that things need to change, but I didn't see anything temporary about what they are asking from the IAM. I'd be interested in seeing all of the concessions they asked from ACPA. I doubt this will happen for some reason though. Do you know anywhere I might find this info? The IAM's is posted on acfamily.net as the IAM website. I have been a supporter of RM, and will continue to be, but it is difficult given the amount of pain we are being asked to take. Perhaps once we find out what each union is being asked to give up, sharing that pain will be easier. Some of the hilites: -one week less vacation -vacation when they want me to take it, not when my seniority allows -contracting out of certain jobs -no overtime pay, instead time off when they choose. -bi-weekly pay cut by 5 hours (no paid lunch) -wage cut (???? amount not set) I'll take your 15% pay cut, and no raise over what they are asking from us. I fear that what Milton says and what his henchmen hear are 2 differant things. How many VP's? How many directors? How many uselass managers do we need? It is hard to be optimistic today. Rant over. PR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 The way I read it, the wage cut is described as temporary, and there is profit sharing offered (no details of the formula) for the "permanent" changes sought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GDR Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Hi Pat We don't even have all the details of what the company has asked for but it is interesting to note that we have already taken a pay cut about a year ago. To prevent lay-offs we are flying fewer hours which results in something aproximating 7% depending which airplane you happen to be on. In the end though a job sure beats the heck out of being on EI. All concessions are going to be negotiated and that will resolve whether or not concessions are temporary or not. We just have to keep things to give time for the airline to be restructured. If we don't buy the time necessary for restructuring or if it doesn't happen there will be massive lay offs. As I have said, we can't carry on losing 3.8 million a day. As Red Green says, "remember we are all in this together." Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Pat, at present the company is asking for a 35% PERMANENT WAGE CUT FROM THE BAGGAGE PEOPLE, they want to completely eliminate cabin service cleaners, the company wants a mandatory 200 hr time bank, of which they can force you to take time off, and you can bet that as soon as your bank reaches two hundred hours, they will force you to take time off to deplete the bank, thus never receiving any O/t on your pay. The company also wants to pay those of us on a 4x4 only for the hours you actually work instead of the standard 80 hours per pay as it is now, this would result in a 133 hour wage cut, where at present we are not paid for stats, saving money for the company, also having improvements in productivity due to employees being happy with their shifts. the company wants to change the sick leave program, thus allowing employees to be able to book of ill only once during a year. The company wants me to fore go a week’s vacation, not temporary but on a permanent basis, in fact all these changes are to be permanent. The company wants a Force Majeur clause put in to be able to use at their discretion. I am tired of hearing this crap about having to do my part, yes I know I will have to give up some things, but this is an outright assault and rape of my and my family and coworkers lives. I have to wonder if any other union group is being destroyed as we in the IAM group are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WA777 Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Robert...you are not alone, we are all under incredible pressure but unfortunately it is the reality of the world we now live in. I'm afraid the "good ole" days are gone forever. We have to find a way to make it work....just today I read an article that says current university grads are taking starting wages lower than 1980's.....Yikes!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 There is also a tendency for these things to be negotiated, too. Company asks for the moon. Accepts less. Workers relieved they don't have to give up the moon. Wouldn't say everyone's happy, but they reach a modus vivendi. By the way, Robert, where do you get that 35% figure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WA777 Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 I don't get the sense this time that there will be much in the way of traditional negotiations. There seems to be a definite air of urgency.....leaves very little room for horse trading.....IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Dagger, I will post the link from the companies new negots agenda, in it they state thatthey want a 35% wage reduction for all station attendants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 The company can place all of us back on a 5-2 type sched, working 80 hour per pay, but also having to pay an extra $3500 per year per employee for stat pay, as per the labour code this is a mandatory item, then there is the employee who would be forced to have a tuesday, wednesday as regular RDO's, i guess they would be just ecstatic to have this kind of schedule. The 4x4 was brought in because of a mass work slowdown, as soon as the 4x4 was brought in, productivity increased and employees were willing to go that extra mile to make sure that an aircraft serviceable for it's flight.The majority of the AME's who work the line here in YYZ go that extra yard when required, some times it is better for a company to take a small hit to keep productivity up by having employees happy with their shifts. As to finding another job, my skills are more than portable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Dagger, i cut and paste the section for you. ITEM M73: Discuss the business opportunities and organizational options being considered by Air Canada Ground Handling Services as a standalone subsidiary. ??????????? Explanation: The Company advised their intent to withdraw their proposal regarding the merging of Category 33 and the Cabin Service Attendant group. Their original proposal to introduce part time employees in Category 33 remains.? The cabin grooming work currently done by a combination of these groups would be sub-contracted out. ??????????? This proposal includes expansion of the use of part time in the station attendant group as well as the elimination of the application of the windows. ??????????? The subcontracting of the work performed by our Central Baggage Office in also contained in this proposal. ??????????? The Company is looking for significant wage reductions (35%) in the Airport group. They advised us that numerous stations would be closed if cost savings were not achieved.?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickle Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 With all due respect Robert, I don't read the 35% the same way that you do. My take on this is that the airports group would like their labor costs to decrease by 35% and not necessarily hit each employee for that percentage. This can be achieved through some layoffs, productivity gains (less manpower per aircraft), etc. I think that we are all resigned to the fact that we are going to have to take a hit in the salary side. I certainly would not expect any group to take a significantly larger hit than any other group. It has to be fair and equitable across all employee groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GDR Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Hi Pat We don't even have all the details of what the company has asked for but it is interesting to note that we have already taken a pay cut about a year ago. To prevent lay-offs we are flying fewer hours which results in something aproximating 7% depending which airplane you happen to be on. In the end though a job sure beats the heck out of being on EI. All concessions are going to be negotiated and that will resolve whether or not concessions are temporary or not. We just have to keep things going long enough to give time for the airline to be restructured. If we don't buy the time necessary for restructuring, or if restructuring doesn't happen there will be massive lay offs. As I have said, we can't carry on losing 3.8 million a day. As Red Green says, "remember we are all in this together." Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 we have spoke to IAM negots members and they have informed us that the company wants a 35% wage cut!What i find ironic is that they want it only from the station attendants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gumbi Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 People have short memories... Temporary Wage Cuts don't make a difference! Remember Canadian Airlines, Canadian Regional and Inter-Canadien? 10% cut across the board for 4 years didn't save the main corporation. Fundamental changes are needed in order to save the money losing companies today, not just Temp Wage Cuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GDR Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Hi Gumbi The point is, that temporary wage cuts won't solve the problem on their own. They can however give a window of time for the long term changes that are required to be implemented, and start to take effect. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1pawn Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Could it be the difference in their wage/productivity versus Westjet etc? Will your IAM just average that out so that the AMEs and Station Attendants take the same Wage hit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flyersclub Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 wage cuts at cdn and cra contributed to the survival of all unionized employees at ac/acr. when cdn was neotiating debt restructuring it meant something to creditors that employees were willing to take wage cuts and without ALL these concessions by employees and creditors, the doors would have closed prior to ac buying cdn in jan 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 So how was all this of benefit to ac/acr? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gumbi Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Hi Greg, That's what I meant when I said that temp wage cuts won't work... You need something else and something BIG. Wage cuts are a really short term help and that alone won't save a company that's losing hundreds of millions of dollars every quarter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest caevans Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Hi Greg, Long time no talk. Pan Am employees accepted 'temporary wage cuts' in their struggle to survive. The snap-back was blatantly denied at the first opportunity by the corporation and the end result was Pan Am's demise. Granted there were other factors, but having just read "Skygods-The Fall of Pan Am" I have the ominous feeling I have seen a glimpse of the 'future history' of AC if we continue on the present course. Yours, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GDR Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Hi Chris It's been a while. Every case has its own problems. Pan Am was an international airline with no feed. They were too late making a change that required them getting a strong domestic feed. It's all a matter of timing. They recognized the changes required but it was too late, and as a result pay cuts did little to stem the tide. We know changes have to be made. Passengers either on their own or through an agent are going on line and buying the cheapest fare they can find. If they get a meal it's a bonus, but they won't pay an extra $10.00 for it when they book the ticket. The industry has changed. It's a just another change brought on by the computer age. Could you or I have imagined an internet forum like this 10 years ago. We have to adjust or we're toast. Fortunately I believe that we have both the time and the ability to make the changes. Also contrary to how some on this forum feel, I also believe that we have the leadership to do this. I have repeated this ad nauseum but we are losing by newspaper accounts 3.8 million per day. Temp wage cuts can at least reduce that to an amount that will get us through the lean quarters into the summer which will give the airlne time to restructure and get ourselves back on a sound footing that is sustainable. I strongly believe that it's a case of short term pain for long term gain. Cheers Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flyersclub Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 sorry missed your post, conceivably in the same manner, if milton and his staff are truly are working on debt restructuring and saving ac/jazz/tango/zip, then one aspect of cost cutting could be wage reductions. at cdn/cra the cost cutting in 1997/98/99 sustained us through to the purchase by ac, but wage cuts were not the only thing. there were very aggressive savings put in place with streamlined processes that cut out bad practices etc. unfortunately what we did at cdn/cra is likely not possible at ac/acr due to the corp culture which still is bureaucratic, fat and blind to reality. ac threw out a number of very efficient cdn systems and processes in 2000, just because they were cdn and unfortunately these would have helped. i have a friend who was at a strategic ac senior mgt meeting lately and all ac folks were struggling with how to cost cut and streamline processes ... as they have no experience in this. i wish them all good luck but it may be too late already. IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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