B75/76 Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Saw this story following up the financial results story. Can't be doing anyone's stress level much good. I hope, for all involved, there is an end to the uncertainty soon. :-) http://www.webfin.com/en/news/news.html/?id=39193 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest azztech Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 "Noting that several well-heeled equity investors have reportedly been attracted, Reid said the airline may have some radical changes in mind that only potential investors have details about." Sounds like Air Canada to do international flying and Zip and Jazz to do domestic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 In times of trouble, there is no shortage of "experts" and other such folks on the sidelines who will pronounce and predict. Air Canada employees are along for the ride and have made their contributions, so I hope this process continues to a successful conclusion. We don't need the Reid's, the Hubert's or the Lazar's and all the Sirens of this world constantly creating black clouds. It serves no purpose other than to needlessly scare people who are working hard to make this go. In fact, to me, such pronouncements from "experts" are self-serving and don't carry anything forward at all. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest James Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 This is the big question mark. "We don't know much about its business plan." "The business plan has a chance of success if we could see a massive restructuring at Air Canada (but not) if Air Canada tries in some way to maintain the same rate of activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 If only everyone would think like you....Ahhh...If. Thanks Don. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimer V Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 I don't understand why only 5500 layoffs have taken place.Everyone knew that at least 10,000 had to go,Business plan,i don't see any evidence of such a monster.Its the same ole same ole with a lot less people,except management of course,who some how have avoided the cuts,If my memory serves me well Continatal had to go chapter 11 twice before they got it right.IE bring in new management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 I think if you go and read the earlier monitor's reports and the company's restructuring announcements back in April-May, you will find that the full layoff totals were only supposed to be achieved over a year or two. There would be layoffs and there would be voluntary separation packages. I don't know where the voluntary portion of the process is with CUPE and CAW - maybe some of the members of those groups could enlighten us. Also, some management cuts were to occur closer to year end. That's also a problem in analyzing so-called deficiency numbers and coming to a conclusion that the sky is falling. If a disproportionate number of people are getting lump sums for vacation and/or severance and/or buyouts, then this clouds any understanding of the airline's actual performance, i.e. costs and revenues from operations. We all know that if you take a deficiency number that dates back to April, you would have to have a monthly deficiency chart to know whether the situation is getting better or worse. Most of the deficiency was incurred in the April-June timeframe on the back of SARS and war. My impression of the situation today is a lot differernt than it was in June. Since none of us, and certainly none of the academics quoted in the article, know yet how the airline is performing month to month for July through September, they can't make educated assumptions about the airline's state of affairs. They can only guess based on traffic numbers, gossip, whatever. I put myself in that boat, too, but I do have a couple of well-placed sources and they aren't talking to these academics or the media. I would love to be able to separate one-time restructuring costs from on-going operating costs, but until there is a third quarter report, it's hard to do. Therefore, I don't think you are serving your fellow employees well with a headline that says "more pay/pension cuts". In the meantime, you can also assume that it's in the best interest of management to put a fairly negative spin on things - or allow one to be nurtured by the media. In situations like this, some things should be taken with a grain of salt - or at least a Valium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Geminoid Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 "Its the same ole same ole with a lot less people,except management of course,who some how have avoided" The 800+ management people who no longer work for AC will be really happy to hear that they were avoided. I guess the 300+ additional who are supposed to be gone by the end of the year will be avoided as well. Geminoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rj200 Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Obligations run up since April 1 total $1.2 billion, composed of items like unpaid aircraft leases and employee payrolls. Cash on hand was $779.4 million, so obligations exceeded cash by $393.7 million. Monitor Ernst & Young calls the overall deficiency "significant" and even alludes to a possible failure, saying that if the restructuring is unsuccessful and the airline is liquidated, there will be few assets left for creditors. Creditors have to file claims by Nov. 14. Louis Hebert, professor of strategy at Montreal business school Hautes Etudes Commerciales, fears that even if Air Canada meets its objective to fly out of bankruptcy protection by the end of this year, it may still be too weak and go down anyway. "I always believed that Air Canada would emerge from protection, but it will be so fragile following that we risk finding ourselves in the same situation a few months later," Hebert said in an interview. "I think it will be able to meet its obligations to get out of bankruptcy, but it won't last very long, unless there is a worldwide recovery in air transport." Hebert said the only way Air Canada will survive will be to go through a radical change that goes well beyond what has been revealed so far. "We don't know much about its business plan," he said. "The business plan has a chance of success if we could see a massive restructuring at Air Canada (but not) if Air Canada tries in some way to maintain the same rate of activity. "I wouldn't be surprised if Air Canada (when it emerges) was half of what it is now." Do they mean aircraft half the size???Sounds to me like a "Jazz" option might be in the works...Hmmmmmmm Noting that several well-heeled equity investors have reportedly been Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dwb yyc Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 AC shares halted at 1300 mst. What could be happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrench Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Big announcement at 17:00 EDT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest V1 Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 you seem to have a rich fantasy life . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lancaster Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 Words of wisdom......When your last name is from the great countries of Asia......and your a business man and investor........they don't want 10% return on their investment. Look out domestic routes, good by technical divisions, goodby Jazz (to a new owner), good by RJ's, hello international, major frequencies between Canada's major centres, hello tier 3 carriers for feed. That's what will happen. You heard it hear first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Patrick Bergen Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 And Victor Li could bring the brunt of the billions of dollars of backing and crush all of the competition. None of your comments or these add any value to the discussion and are irrelevant. Very good comments by Don. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimer V Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 Most of the management that were let go were on these little projects that get dragged out for years,cost the company millions and nothing ever comes out of it.From the operation side not one single manager has been let go yet we have lost 30% of front line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsgas Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Li will make money for sure. Now for some of the AC employees that haven't had a good pay cut,be ready for a good trimming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsgas Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Unless Jazz cuts their operating cost soon, a lot of U.S. commuters will be in a very good position to challange them on some transborder routes,due to the continuning appricating CAD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jazzplayer Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 We are definitely working on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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