Guest q650 Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Air Canada board plans emergency meeting as pilots withhold concessions at 13:24 on May 29, 2003, EST. TORONTO (CP) - Air Canada and its pilots remain far apart on cost-concession proposals to lift the airline out of bankruptcy protection, ahead of a critical court appearance Friday afternoon. Air Canada's board was to hold an emergency meeting, and there was speculation Thursday that the directors could resign if no deal is reached. An impasse with the Air Canada Pilots Association could jeopardize the restructuring of the insolvent airline. A lawyer representing ACPA - the only one of nine Air Canada unions yet to accept a tentative cost-cutting agreement - said in court Thursday that the group, representing more than 3,000 pilots, is still willing to talk despite missing a Tuesday deadline. After that deadline passed, the pilots were asked to respond by Wednesday but did not in time for a report by a court-appointed monitor, which said other unions and non-union employees have agreed to a total of $766 million in annual savings. But those agreements aren't sufficient without the pilots on board, the monitor said. Pilot association lawyer Richard Jones said the union was "preparing further submissions to Air Canada." Jones made it clear the pilots are willing to accept some cost concessions. But he said the pilots are being asked to provide 31 per cent of the cost cuts when they are only 10 per cent of workforce. "How can ACPA recommend to its members . . . the kind of sacrifice that is now being demanded by Air Canada?" Jones demanded of Ontario Superior Court Justice James Farley. Jones said a proposal to have ACPA members compete for aircraft assignments with members of the Canadian Airline Pilots Association at Air Canada's Jazz subsidiary is a significant barrier to an agreement. He also said Air Canada has failed to address cost-saving moves proposed by the union, and he was "offended" by what he regarded as the monitor's suggestion that the pilots are stalling in the talks. "It is not appropriate or fair . . . that ACPA should be flogged in public for the contributions it has made to this airline," Jones said, who added that the portrayal of ACPA in the monitor's reports was inaccurate. Before leaving court, Farley said to Jones: "We have two very different sources of information here and mine seems to be independent." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shamus Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 "Jones said a proposal to have ACPA members compete for aircraft assignments with members of the Canadian Airline Pilots Association at Air Canada's Jazz subsidiary is a significant barrier to an agreement." Does anyone else find this somewhat amusing? ACPA made the rules of the game when they split from CALPA; denied any validity to Picher; consistently demanded separate bargaining units during numerous attempts to mediate differences; and now they don't like competition for the work. You made the rules Gentlemen - now play by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest in_the_sky Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 ACPA is playing by the rules. Under Canadian labour law what the compnay want do do with-out ACPA's blessing is illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DashTrash Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 I would say that when the flt plans won't print tomorrow afternoon there's gonna be a lot of shocked people[including jazz]. If you have to work I would suggest to bring extra clothes and money as aircrew may be stranded for many days. Seen it all before ..dt P.S. Good luck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 If the B.O.D. resigns en masse then it will be lights out by tomorrow I would bet, whatever the impasse is, best to knuckle under now and live to fight another day, agreed? Good luck to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest in_the_sky Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 And the rules are that Air Canada can NOT give more to Jazz than ACPA agrees to. So says Canadian labour law. With any luck the board will resign, They are the reason we are here in the first place. Not the employees, Maybe it's time that each of the creditors appoint someone to a new Air Canada Board and get things going in the right direction again. IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jeanmermoz Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 The Board can resign, it will not be a great loss. As a matter of fact, this would be the first step in the restructuration because they are the cause of the problem. They are not part of the solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kilo Mike Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Shamus.. I have to ask yah something. Besides being illegal under Canadian labour law, you are proposing that it's ok to poach work from each other. (insert sarcastic voice here) I'm guessing you wouldn't mind then if ACPA bid all flying down to the dash 8 rendering Jazz irrelivant. Just think of the savings that could be had being able to illiminate a whole part of the AC family structure. The growth that would be happening at AC could be filled by the newly layed off Jazz pilots at the bottom of the list..... Wow... I like how Jazz pilots think. Back to lurking KM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickle Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 I hope that everyone comes to their senses soon. It is gut wrenching to read this board today and see the Jazz guys gloating over the mainline. There are so many stupid comments between these two groups it makes you wonder if they are really professionals. I do lay a great portion of the blame for this impasse on the company. They negotiated and released the details of the agreement with Jazz knowing full well that this would create of very bitter rift between ALPA and ACPA. When you really want a deal you don't create an environment that is doomed for failure. Having said all of that the future of thousands of other employees hangs in the wind. What will be, will be but let's get it over with soon so we can get on with our lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JazzMTC Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Better go into work, clean out the locker and grab the toolbox. Last time I saw this movie play out, guys took days to get their stuff while others lost most of their gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickle Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 This is for the posters that think if the board resigns they just appoint a new one and carry on. True they may be part of the original problem. They didn't pay attention to begin with. If this board resigns, we're done. Finished. Kaput, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AME Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 I know I shouldn't but what the hey... Isn't that how you got the RJs (all other issues aside) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kevbert Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Brilliant - refuse yourself out of a job. This is the scenario you are looking at: -board resigns tomorrow - effectively saying there is no help for the company (those of who have read the monitor's report know there is no cash already) -the company is no longer organization in bankruptcy - it is bankrupt -Jazz and Aeroplan are sold off to pay off the creditors of the mainline -ACPA proudly announces that "they won" while walking to the unemployment office Yes, you may have to take it on the chin by agreeing to the cuts but at least a job is there for you. Ask some of your C3 colleagues if they liked what happened to them - replacement airlines don't start overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B75/76 Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Very good response!!! (N) Maybe it is time to walk away from your computer until you cool down. Posts like this offer nothing constructive. At least, I suppose, you are consistent in the tone and intelligence of your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shamus Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 You missed my point completely. A single bargaining unit as envisaged by CALPA almost 20 years ago would have prevented this whipsaw by the COMPANY. And please do remember, the CRJ's were originally destined to the Regionals but it was the AC bargaining unit that came up with the 5% solution. . When ACPA and ALPA compete for the work, only the Company is going to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Continuous Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 DIVIDE AND CONQUER. It has worked since the early days of the Roman Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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