Guest ABC Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 I think most readers of this forum find your postings quite informative. But there were a couple of things you have said in recent posts that makes one question your opinion in that is seems to have a very anti-Jazz bias. To quote a few of your statements: I've sat by for months listening to this drivel "The regionals always made money, the regionals always made money, yadda yadda blah blah" IMO, making profit in any business when times are good is what it is all about. It allows the business to ride out the unprofitable times. This is not drivel. Most divisions of Jazz have made 10's (hundreds?) of millions of dollars of profit in the past for Air Canada. Surely ONE year of restructuring and losing $88 million hasn't depleted the bank account. Sure, it wipes out the last four years of airOntario's profit. So what about the rest of the profit airlines such as CRA, airNova and airOntario have made? Perhaps this money could be reinvested in Jazz to make it more competitive. Do you still think it is "stupid to judge the future or the present by the past"? You said you agreed "wholeheartedly" in tranfering the RJ flying to the regional airlines. Does this mean Jazz? Most would agree that this would be an important step in improving Air Canada's financial situation. Why should ACPA allow RJ flying to be tranferred to Jazz? What about the 737 flying? It would be much more advantageous to Air Canada's finances to have the wage scale at Jazz do this flying. But Dagger, you seem to talk in tongues. Is a 737 a regional aircraft (NB. I am not calling this a T-rex)? Is Jazz a regional airline? Are regional routes defined as routes under 300?400? miles? So is Westjet a regional airline? Is Zip? Is Jazz? Or are the 767, airbus and RJ rapidairs between YYZ/YUL/YOW to be considered aircraft operating "regional" flying? It is so confusing. Please clarify this. "All Jazz is looking for is a scapegoat." Are you referring to a)the employees b)the management at Jazz or c)the management at Air Canada? One final quote of yours is "it's clear that some of you are too busy licking wounded pride to make fundamentally sound choices" Seriously. What choices are you referring to? Is this a "shot" at ACPA? (the scope clause is the cause of all this mess at AC, ACPA is to blame?) Or, perhaps, the pilots of Jazz should have quit and gone to Air Canada ? Some did. Is that what you mean? Or should these pilots have quit and gone to Westjet? Is that fundamentally sound ... because some did. Or finally, are you taking a shot at management. They made some fundamentally unsound choices because of wounded pride??? Get used to it, you say. So what happens next? I sincerely hope people in this industry could be a bit more sensitive in their posts. Families, children, spouses are affected. Not just the employees at Air Canada, Jazz, Canada 3000, Air Atlantic, United. It sure makes the employee feel good who just found out that because Angus K. made a bad move, she has to sell her house. Good luck to all in this industry. I don't think I have the stomach for it. Stupid me ... I just thought a career in aviation would be a rewarding one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Good post, ABC. I enjoy many of Dagger's posts. But at times, he does lack sensitivity when discussing issues surrounding Jazz. Why is that, Dagger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Good post, ABC. I enjoy many of Dagger's posts. But at times, he does lack sensitivity when discussing issues surrounding Jazz. Why is that, Dagger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest q650 Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Dagger is an AC management employee living in YOW but commuting to work daily on the 1st Jazz flight to YUL...any guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest q650 Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Dagger is an AC management employee living in YOW but commuting to work daily on the 1st Jazz flight to YUL...any guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 How wrong you are !!!! he is NOT an AC employee of any type or description, and I have $10,000.00 that says I am correct...Any takers???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 How wrong you are !!!! he is NOT an AC employee of any kind, type or description, and I have a wheelbarrow full of money that says I am correct...Any bets???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eclipse Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 ABC wrote You said you agreed "wholeheartedly" in tranfering the RJ flying to the regional airlines. Does this mean Jazz? Most would agree that this would be an important step in improving Air Canada's financial situation. Why should ACPA allow RJ flying to be tranferred to Jazz? What about the 737 flying? It would be much more advantageous to Air Canada's finances to have the wage scale at Jazz do this flying From what I remember an RJ crew at AC makes about the same as an RJ crew at Jazz. The FA's at AC make a little more but I don't think the difference would justify the means. As far a Jazz Flying the 73 for Zip, I'm sure management knows the second Jazz pilots heard of a 150,000 lb jet, they would be asking for a change to their runumeration package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AME Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 For what it's worth dagger has never had the you know what, to admit to who he/she is so any thing said by him/her should be treated the same any other anonymous poster. Sure some people here know who he/she is but that doesn't make him/her any more credible. Brett ps: the way he/she is endorsing the wage etc... reduction idea, one can only assume he/she is AC management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 "As far a Jazz Flying the 73 for Zip, I'm sure management knows the second Jazz pilots heard of a 150,000 lb jet, they would be asking for a change to their runumeration package." Jazz doesn't use the same model. The status pay system + a very long term agreement would solve that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 He/she is endoring the wage reduction issue? LOL Never said that. I have stressed the need for more productivity to expand at a very low cost. Did I ever talk about wage reductions? You/you should know better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz2 Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 You should actually research before you post, just about everyone on the RJ is on bypass pay, so the comparison isn't even close, Jazz can/does operate the RJ cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AME Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Yeah, I know... Yesterday was my last day in YYC so we over indulged, and then I shot off my mouth, sorry about that. YUL bound, Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pull Up Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 "just about everyone on the RJ is on bypass pay" If AC is willing to pay this way, then the point isn't that Jazz can do the flying cheaper, it's that the company is willing to pay more to have the flying done. Otherwise, train people on what they can hold and pay them accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eclipse Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Yes the company does sometimes choose to pay people rather than uptrain them. That was more common a few years ago. I think you'll find as things have slowed down, that is much rarer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nigol Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Are you saying that the AC RJ pilots are getting bypass pay?....So these pilots are making 320 and 767 wages(-publish wages here-)...oh my!!!! This makes as much sense as JAZZ flying the D8 at their wages. It would sure save AC a lot of money if they would transfer their RJs to JAZZ, as JR wants. JAZZ is still going to lay off 130 or so $36000-$52000/yr F/Os. 'Only in Air Canada Corp eh...pity'. No wonder the bottom is falling out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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