Stickle Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 The airline's mechanics and baggage handlers appear to be more defiant. After being asked to accept $208 million worth of wage and work concessions, they will next week wear buttons stating, "Full pay till the last day," according to a union source I can appreciate that this union is posturing but with a button like that sends a very negative message to the rest of the employee groups and the passengers. If the mechanics and ramp agents think that they can do better in the open market than they can after giving a percentage of their salary to assist in saving the company, then go now...please. Here is the full link http://www.canada.com/montreal/specials/business/story.html?id={5667C8D3-7074-44CF-8E3E-E0C06027435C} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest James Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 With 650 million in the bank, and losing 1.7 million a day, they won't be wearing those pins for very long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lupin Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Thats a touchy subject stickle.... the market rate for an aircraft mechanic is what air canada is paying right now.Skyservice is in the same ball park (moneywise)and i'm shure if u factor in profit sharing west jet wouldn't be too far off. Station services on the other hand are very well paid.... nearly 3 times as much as soemone working for ogden or hudson general or globe.They are in the same union as the mechanics....its the only thing saving their behinds for now... why should aircraft mechanics make less then an electrician or a plumber??Our demands are not out of line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pat Reid Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Your quote: nearly 3 times as much as soemone working for ogden or hudson general or globe. Starting wage for a Station Attendant at AC is currently in the $9/hour range. I seen ad's in the local paper this winter for Hudson/Global for S/A starting at $11/hour. Hardly 3 times the salary. With years of service the wage at AC increases. Turnover at Hudson is fairly frequent. I have heard that at times as high as 30%. I wonder how many 25 year employee's these companies have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsgas Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 The question to be asked is,does it take 25 years experience to be able to load bags onto an airplane? And there are some 25 year people that haven't shown up for work in years and earn over $50,000 plus benefits to do nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lupin Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 how much education is required to load bagage?university?college? and yet a station attendant can get up to 23.45/hour, similar for custumer service and the cargo guys.Now how can you compete when the competition is giving everything out to service providers like ogden etc and getting the SAME job done for cheaper!!! I don't want anyone to lose their jobs but at the same time we all make choices in life and whoever though a bagage handler could be a lifelong career should reexamine things... lupin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 "I don't want anyone to lose their jobs but at the same time we all make choices in life and whoever though a bagage handler could be a lifelong career should reexamine things..." It does not require Higher education as has been so eloquently pointed out by those at the front end of the point, but why should it not be a career . I have a family that I have to support just as you do , just at a glance , the garbage collector that picks up your trash actually makes more than I do , and requires a lot less responsibility than my job, He works on a truck (worth 500,000) we work on acft day in and out that are worth on the average of 50,000,000 so where is the justice in that . We all know that the airline is in bad financial shape and like going into any negot's with the company you take a hard line. I think that what has discouraged all is the lack of leadership that we see comming down from the crystal palace. "In particular, I’ve read comments to the effect that other stakeholders, including Management, must participate in this structural cost reduction effort. I agree entirely and management will participate. Just as our 3,000 managers did from 2001 to 2002, they will once again take pay reductions to take effect as soon as cost reduction programs are implemented for unionized employees" The above is taken from Robert's latest letter to the employee's. I would like to see this take place first before I am asked to take a hit then I will step in line with the management. As to your claim about "ramp guys" not actually setting foot on the ramp and paying off their shifts , look elsewhere first it's not the ramp that abuse's this but one of the other union's . 99% of the people that work on the ramp have a family to support and we are here day in and day out to do this, in sales 75% of the people are here as second incomes and YES they do abuse it. As posted in another thread 300 pilots sat on their butt's for a year collecting their checks and you have the nerve to suggest that my lively hood be cut to protect the Starbellies well its no wonder that the IAM feels like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 I spoke to a manager last week - a mid-level manager, not a VP. He's ready to take a pay cut, but he's saying the same thing everybody else is: He and his colleagues don't want to be the only ones who take a cut. They, too, have families, and mortgages. So while you say THEY should go first, i think it is better of ALL go at the same time, or at least all parties should make commitments without waiting for the other guy to go first. The fact is, most unions are sliding that way. CAW, despite its supposed hard line, is ready to do work rule changes, has said it would forego the planned pay raise, etc. That's a bargaining position, as is the company's demands for much more. ACPA always does the responsible thing in a crisis. IAM on the ramp lacks leverage to resist concessions completely, so we will see some compromise. Milton has committed the non-union ranks to cuts. So while it doesn't look like anything is happening, I do see a drift towards a middle ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 Good news, thanks dagger. Nice plug for ACPA too, had to read that twice.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starman Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 I'd rather see management manage more effectively, than take a pay cut. One of Canadian Airline's problems in the late 90's was that we were paying less than industry standard compensation to our management staff, which meant that it was difficult to retain good managers, leaving us with managers whose resumes were not getting attention elsewhere. A more streamlined management team with an eye for the bottom line and a "best practices" approach going forward will do more to ensure corporate efficiency and employee security than a bloated bureacracy who thinks it has served the company well by taking a pay cut. As a shareholder, I'd rather reduce the empirical nature of Air Canada management and pay the most effective leaders an industry stardard wage commensurate with their performance in a leaner corporate structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 I should have qualified it by saying you know ACPA comes through in a crisis not of its own making... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 I should have qualified it by saying you know ACPA comes through in a crisis not of its own making... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 Ah yes, could not have said it better myself. Personally, I too share your insights, I feel that the internal tide may be beginning to turn. Let's hope so. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 Dagger: "So while you say THEY should go first, i think it is better of ALL go at the same time, or at least all parties should make commitments without waiting for the other guy to go first". I would be willing to bet that the majority of employee's would be willing to do this we are just waiting for our leadership to step up to the plate, when I say leadership I don't mean the union . In this crisis that WE face (notice the WE includes all employee groups) we are all looking for the leader that WE followed in the Onex situation. The time to stop pointing fingers at each other saying "he's an overpaid low skilled worker" is over! Extrodinary situations require extrodinary solutions. Why don't we all sit down at the same table with the leadership and as Deicer said " this is where we are ,this is where we want to be how do WE go about doing it". The only good thing that has come from this situation is that ACPA is no longer RED team Blue team, they have gotten together to point their collective fingers at everyone else. I expect that I will get flamed for this but as Mitch likes to hear "Gentlemen start your engines". Cheers Frosty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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