Mitch Cronin Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Folks, Long Keel, speaking in another thread, claims "Speaking against OAC pilots is a way of life here. Most OAC's gave up on this forum due to the anit-oac drivel that finds its way here daily." I think he's full of beans (no disrespect intended Mr Keel)... How 'bout it? Are there any of you left here to dispute that statement? (either his or mine?) I haven't noticed any specific anti OAC sentiment here at all... but then, maybe I've been a little less sensitive to it than I would be if I wore those shoes... There has been some expression of disgust over the split between OAC and OCP pilots... including some from myself, but that's quite different... I reckon... Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Agree, Mitch. Usually the OAC/OCP thing doesn't surface that often. Perhaps longkeel is responding more to the guys like Buzz2 and HPTtour who never, never miss the opportunity to fire Pichet or tort missles. Just MO, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dork Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Still here. Very concerned about all of our well being. There are very big problems with respect to the "S" subject that will not go away anytime soon regardless of my opinion or anyone else. There are some good ideas here and some rant, but that is what it is all for. There are some great folks here that make it all worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 There are very big problems with respect to the "S" subject that will not go away anytime soon regardless of my opinion or anyone else. What "S" subject? Sex? EAP has some excellent people that can help you with that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sputnik Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Why would Buzz want "sex" to go away? I think he needs help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Actually, it's the "very big problems" I was alluding to. And the only sex I want to go away is the regular screwing I get from Milton... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dork Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Speaking of Sex I hear several fellows who are "members in good standing" are off to have "staff reduction operations." Austin Powers would be proud...who needs the Swedish pump anyway. The thing we have to do to keep a company on the "up and up". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leading Edge Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Long Keel has pretty much hit the nail on the head... Most OAC that I know, don't even bother lurking anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted May 21, 2004 Author Share Posted May 21, 2004 Thanks for the responses Buzz, Dork and Leading Edge... Oh well... If true, can anyone point out why? If there's any "anti" sentiment here, I haven't seen it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Mitch…… A Pilots Point Of View The problem, as I see it, re few OACs on the forum is that they are still reeling from shock about what has transpired in the past few years, and mainly what has transpired in the past few months. Many years ago, the ultimate goal for many a pilot was to fly for AC and when finally “selected” they are told that they are the elite of the flyboys. Years ago that were true, after all it was a government job, no way of failure, no way of losing your job. That put them in a pretty enviable position and naturally those that aspired to join, but could not, started to take pot shots at the AC boys. Many of the “selected “ being young and perhaps a bit jaded rebutted and gloated over their position and perhaps even demeaned those that could not join the establishment. Naturally this caused bad feelings and even when a “moderate" AC fellow voiced his opinion, he would be shouted down by those that had felt the slings and arrows of the younger, immature AC types. And so the die was cast. I have met, and talked with a lot of great AC guys, flyers and non flyers, but there is still a small minority who have a hard time facing reality and understanding that they are not the demi-gods they once thought they were. The world has changed and many are reluctant to change with it and naturally there are those that hate AC with a passion, for whatever reason, and as you know, the most vocal, whether they be right or wrong, are most often heard, (read), on a public forum. Thus many of the individuals you might really enjoy conversing with, just give up, and move on, because for some, all have been painted with the same brush. The fact that AC almost went under is also a reality check for many and perhaps these individuals are reluctant to speak up because they have to admit that what they have been told about their proposed career progression may not happen in the graduated time line they were expecting. My personal opinion???..No matter who you work for…… it’s just a job, you try to do your best, you support your employer, give consideration to others in the industry, and in the end, a few years after you retire 90% of the individuals you worked with will have forgotten your name. Have a nice weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted May 22, 2004 Author Share Posted May 22, 2004 Interesting thoughts Kip, It strikes me that the vast majority of folks on either side of the was/wasn't dabacle haven't had thing one to do with where they stand now... That fact both renders all blameless, and frustrates some of them to the n'th degree... We know the "S" debate has been stewing for some time, and it wasn't going to go away nicely in any case, but the added stresses of our current state of "ailing" has undoubtedly contributed to emotional reactions and comments... It seems to me the absence of some on the forum here has been coincident with the forum's format change... With the old format, the long drawn out arguments would fade down and down, becoming easily ignored, for those without the stomach. Now all the frequent petty bickering continually gets put back at the top, seemingly encouraging more of the same. It's quite a different style of forum and can take some getting used to. Easier, I think, to discourage those who would rather not participate in, nor even read the tedious squabbles... However... Once you get used to the notion that just because a particular thread is at the top it doesn't mean it's your cup of tea... that you might want to scroll down some from time to time... it can be just as fine a place to communicate as it always has been. Anyway, I like your last paragraph... Right on the money I think. Cheers, Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTFA Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Someone has a quip on their signature that says: Never confuse having a career with having a life. Thankfully my parents ingrained that when I was just beginning the rat race. GTFA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Virtual Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 I haven't noticed any specific anti OAC sentiment here at all... but then, maybe I've been a little less sensitive to it than I would be if I wore those shoes... Well, Mitch, if we put it this way.... OAC = ACPA ..... then maybe this would help you. Now, when was the last time you read anything positive about ACPA here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest long keel Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Agree, Mitch. Usually the OAC/OCP thing doesn't surface that often. Perhaps longkeel is responding more to the guys like Buzz2 and HPTtour who never, never miss the opportunity to fire Pichet or tort missles. Just MO, of course. Buzz, You hit the nail on the head, and drove it through the board. Most OAC's left over this as opposed to any CIRB dealings. Like I said earlier, 90% of the OCP guys I fly with are great. I never mention seniority in the flight deck, its a non-starter for me. I hope that 90% of the OAC's or better are as easy to work with. Kip, Still waiting to meet one of those demi-Gods that are OAC(or OCP)! I think the minority is small from both camps, but due to perceptions we can always find the ego maniacs from the other camp faster. My personal opinion???..No matter who you work for…… it’s just a job, you try to do your best, you support your employer, give consideration to others in the industry, and in the end, a few years after you retire 90% of the individuals you worked with will have forgotten your name. I share this opinion with you completely. I'll do my best to stay out of the minority. Great weekend to you all. Off the board for five(+) days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Well, Mitch, if we put it this way.... OAC = ACPA ..... then maybe this would help you. Now, when was the last time you read anything positive about ACPA here? Y'know, that's not the same cat. OAC are peelots, just like the rest of us, and other than some guys heated venting on "S" issues, I don't think right-thinking folk have a bad thing to say. ACPA, on the other hand, is getting plenty of attention, and deserve every negative penny of it. I know I'm dragging stuff from my other thread in here, but ACPA doesn't deserve a kind word after their latest crap. So fer me, for what it's worth, OAC does not = ACPA, nor should it. Best regards for the long weekend all, GO FLAMES GO!!! buzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted May 22, 2004 Author Share Posted May 22, 2004 Hello Virtual... A couple thoughts hit me there... - ACPA = AC (all pilots), or it's supposed to, right? - All in all, I'd say I've heard more praise here for ACPA than otherwise... (excluding comments from some more vocal Jazz members) - Some of the harshest criticism I've heard aimed at ACPA has come from OAC members (one in particular). But then... Being an extremely resentful IAM member, I've been somewhat hardened to the sounds of crud being lobbed at unions, (lobbed a wad or two myself) so maybe I've missed it. Cheers, Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Virtual Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 ACPA = AC (all pilots), or it's supposed to, right? Yep, it's supposed to... just doesn't always seem like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest max continuous Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 I'm an OAC pilot and usually still pop in from time to time to catch up on the latest. For me personally, I just lurk and post media reports. IMO the other OAC's have moved on, probably for two reasons. I think a lot have grown tried of the flagrant emotionalism demonstrated by certain posters, who spring load to the mud slinging. The other, I believe is the new format of this website. Anyway to those on this thread, you always posted good dialogue and the points you were advocating were interesting to read. The way it should be. Have a safe and enjoyable summer all. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innuendo Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 I am one of those who do not like the new format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 I am one of those who do not like the new format. I must admit, the new format threw me off for a few days but if you have time to play with it, it becomes quite easy to follow. The other day I just found out what the >> chevrons mean infront of the posting headers in the index. If you don't know....click on them and they will take you to your last "unread post" in the thread. There is probably much more I don't know about this place but then again..........no one ever accused me of being a fast learner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leading Edge Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Long Keel is right on the money again. For the record, 90% of the OAC that I have flown with are great. ACPA does represent the silent majority, the complainers are generally people with individual issues that they are very passionate about - something that they have every right to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gord Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Oh dear, Not wanting to upset anyone but I find this new format far easier to negotiate and for some reason much easier to post on, the previous one often left me with what few posts I did make, swimming around in the ether somewhere and never making it to the page. This is pretty much the standard type of forum format used by by most websites today, probably for the exact reason I mentioned above, ease of use. My condolences to those who feel a loss of the old style, I understand how you feel as I am a member of another site that has changed format three times in the past year and finally settled on one similar to this. This style of forum apparently allows for the addition of any new sections to be added without too much bother. For instance this other site I belong to now has a photo gallery, a chatroom, an arcade where if one is interested, one can challenge the computer or other members at various games, (I don't get involved with that, basically because I'm absolute crap at those damn things) and several other sections and it seems they are adding more everytime you turn your pc on. It is however the only site I have been on where anything and I mean ANYTHING goes, other than porn', which is cause for instant banishment from the site. It is definitely not PC and recommends that people call a spade a spade. It probably would not interest most people on here however as it is based in the UK and it's members are predominantly ex RN matelots. the front page states that "This site contains language that may offend" I think that says it all. I think that after a while people will become used to this style of forum and find that it can be equally as good as the one you had before. Gord'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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