Guest Tri-spool Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 I suggest you try swimming! ) It would make a whole lot of us a lot happier! Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fax Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Thanks Malcolm. On the dates that I wanted, you can get it for under 4 grand if you go to Expedia as well. However on Air Canada's website the cheapest fare was over 4,000. Why don't they offer the lower fare on their site? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Fax; Unionism is going to have to re-invent itself just like the business community is. Of that, there is no doubt. That doesn't mean it gives in or gives up. But as Dagger correctly observes, change is in the wind...or rather the hurricane..., and the 2x4s will soon be burying themselves in local trees... Some form of employee protection and representation has to be retained, otherwise the long-term prospect for corporations is dismal. What if they held a business, and nobody came?. Its not that simple of course, but the phenomena of McWages and now McPensions is very real for our children now entering the McJob market. And the current fad to criticize the phenomena of "outsourcing" (to Thailand or India etc) is a notion with a very short shelf-life because those workers in those countries will very quickly (five years?..) learn of their value and begin looking for more than subsistence wages. The flow will ebb, especially if the US economy actually begins to show signs of life, and corporations will be forced to deal with paying workers more to attract them. Today, a low-cost MD83 Captain in a sector of the Canadian airline industry, (such as it is), makes about 65k a year and has very limited experience. There's a lot in that statement, if one thinks about it. I do not subscribe to alarmist views but prefer quiet examination and an engaged criticism of one's views based upon such thought, but I will profer the admittedly controversial view that one strong potential of the McJobbing of cockpit crews which is well underway in Canada is a potential rising in the curve of incident rates which has so far, steadily been flattening since 1963 or so. By the time the results are in from the McCrew "experiment" a decade or so from now, the causes of such a statistical rise will have long since been obscured except to those doing Masters and Doctoral theses, most of which have little more than academic interest in the broader community. Before this view is taken personally and defensively, I am a flight safety person interested in the effects of the dynamics and forces of the industry upon incident rates over long periods of time, and am not the least interested in casting aspersions on the skills of present and future pilots. Such a view is to be rejected in favour of examining very broad trends in the order of decades, not years. At the same time however, as it is with other careers which high degrees of skill, training, discipline and ability are required, it takes a certain aptitude to fly and not everyone can do it...that's a fact, not an opinion. That's not saying pilots are any more "special" than saying corporate lawyers are "special", doctors are "special" or parents are "special"...it takes a certain person and skill set to be an airline pilot and a different kind of person with different aptitudes to take up one of the other professions. Anyway, no disrespect or offence is intended here; if any is taken, my apologies. I have posted before that many such persons will seek their fortunes elsewhere, where the conditions now unfolding in an airline pilot's career are not present to nearly the same degree. In short, when young people examining the ROI on career investments take a look around, the "hastle" factor elsewhere is and it looks like it will continue to be, far less. Only time can reveal whether this view is completely out to lunch or has some merit. I do know one thing that can be said with certainty: the area of human factors research to which most analysts and researchers have now turned their energies and time in order to reduce accident rates as routes promise to expand exponentially as the economy recovers, cannot be taken seriously enough nor soon enough by both the industry and the Regulator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Fax; Unionism is going to have to re-invent itself just like the business community is. Of that, there is no doubt. That doesn't mean it gives in or gives up. But as Dagger correctly observes, change is in the wind...or rather the hurricane..., and the 2x4s will soon be burying themselves in local trees... Some form of employee protection and representation has to be retained, otherwise the long-term prospect for corporations is dismal. What if they held a business, and nobody came?. Its not that simple of course, but the phenomena of McWages and now McPensions is very real for our children now entering the McJob market. And the current fad to criticize the phenomena of "outsourcing" (to Thailand or India etc) is a notion with a very short shelf-life because those workers in those countries will very quickly (five years?..) learn of their value and begin looking for more than subsistence wages. The flow will ebb, especially if the US economy actually begins to show signs of life, and corporations will be forced to deal with paying workers more to attract them. Today, a low-cost MD83 Captain in a sector of the Canadian airline industry, (such as it is), makes about 65k a year and has very limited experience. There's a lot in that statement, if one thinks about it. I do not subscribe to alarmist views but prefer quiet examination and an engaged criticism of one's views based upon such thought, but I will profer the admittedly controversial view that one strong potential of the McJobbing of cockpit crews which is well underway in Canada is a potential rising in the curve of incident rates which has so far, steadily been flattening since 1963 or so. By the time the results are in from the McCrew "experiment" a decade or so from now, the causes of such a statistical rise will have long since been obscured except to those doing Masters and Doctoral theses, most of which have little more than academic interest in the broader community. Before this view is taken personally and defensively, I am a flight safety person interested in the effects of the dynamics and forces of the industry upon incident rates over long periods of time, and am not the least interested in casting aspersions on the skills of present and future pilots. Such a view is to be rejected in favour of examining very broad trends in the order of decades, not years. At the same time however, as it is with other careers which high degrees of skill, training, discipline and ability are required, it takes a certain aptitude to fly and not everyone can do it...that's a fact, not an opinion. That's not saying pilots are any more "special" than saying corporate lawyers are "special", doctors are "special" or parents are "special"...it takes a certain person and skill set to be an airline pilot and a different kind of person with different aptitudes to take up one of the other professions. Anyway, no disrespect or offence is intended here; if any is taken, my apologies. I have posted before that many such persons will seek their fortunes elsewhere, where the conditions now unfolding in an airline pilot's career are not present to nearly the same degree. In short, when young people examining the ROI on career investments take a look around, the "hastle" factor elsewhere is and it looks like it will continue to be, far less. Only time can reveal whether this view is completely out to lunch or has some merit. I do know one thing that can be said with certainty: the area of human factors research to which most analysts and researchers have now turned their energies and time in order to reduce accident rates as routes promise to expand exponentially as the economy recovers, cannot be taken seriously enough nor soon enough by both the industry and the Regulator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 II asked the same question last week myself, still no answer. There is considerable difference between the AC site, the AC owned Destina.ca site with one being much higher than the other but with no rhyme or reason. Perhaps one of the reasons they are in trouble. On the domestic side, the official AC site offers fares that are much lower than those found on Destina.ca or Travelocity I guess in the belief that folks will flock to the official AC site, however most folks when shopping will use the other two sites and ask for the cheapest avail. Westjet shows up but AC does not on Travelocity (as cheapest) but when you look at the official ac site, most times they match westjet or are even lower. The Destina site on the other hand does not always display the lowest AC fare eg for YYC - YHZ OW on May 12 Destina shows lowest avail on AC to be $1920.23 , the official AC site on the otherhand shows $199.00 on Tango, Travelocity shows Westjet to be the cheapest at $472.00 OW. Someone in their marketing department is not paying attention or ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest manwest Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 1 AC1105V 14JUL 3 YYZYVR SS1 1100 1304 /DCAC /E YYZ*EFF 06APR04 AC-JAZZ DOM T1/AC-JAZZ USA T2/INTL AC T1 2 AC 39V 14JUL 3 YVRKIX SS1 1445 1730 15JUL 4 /DCAC /N 3 AC 36L 21JUL 3 KIXYVR SS1 1615 0930 /DCAC /N 4 AC 130L 21JUL 3 YVRYYZ SS1 1100 1824 /DCAC /E And the same fare in AC RES $2325.72 14JUL DEPARTURE DATE-----LAST DAY TO PURCHASE 7MAY BASE FARE TAXES TOTAL 1- CAD2260.00 65.72XT CAD2325.72ADT XT 20.00CA .84XG 12.00SQ 32.88SW 2260.00 65.72 2325.72TTL ADT-01 VHXAB YTO AC X/YVR AC OSA M853.48VHXAB AC X/YVR AC YTO M853.48 VHXAB NUC1706.96END ROE1.32398 SITI REF PENALTY APPLIES If I use my wholesaler its only $1320.72 with a markup for same flights same dates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted April 23, 2004 Author Share Posted April 23, 2004 Hi Don, Please give me a day to respond, up to my @ss in alligators today. Best wishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted April 23, 2004 Author Share Posted April 23, 2004 Mitch, You make me laugh sometimes. In a good way and just when I need one. Have a great day dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Glad to hear it... now you better go look after those alligators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Hudson Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Resurrecting a 2004 thread on pilot wages... I know a lot has changed in this department since then. I wonder how many professional airline pilots are still earning less than $20k/year? Anyway, from a local newspaper in Prescott, Arizona, (where I believe Embry-Riddle has one of two aviation colleges? Quote http://www.dcourier.com/news/2017/jan/24/airlines-facing-pilot-shortage-begin-raise-wages-c/ Airlines facing pilot shortage, begin to raise wages to combat trend By Max Efrein Originally Published: January 24, 2017 6 a.m. Projections published by the University of North Dakota’s Aviation Department have indicated that U.S. airlines may start running out of pilots in as soon as two years. The issue is many current pilots are reaching their mandatory retirement age of 65 and fewer young people are choosing commercial aviation as a profession. That deficit is expected to reach about 15,000 by 2026, according to the study. The lack of interest partly stems from low-paying regional carriers — where many aviation professionals start their careers. “Starting pilots don’t make much at all,” said Virginia Kinach, a retired corporate pilot. “It’s seniority based.” Common figures found online say that in recent years a starting pilot might have only made about $20,000 annually. Ed Kalabus, a retired airline pilot who is now a freelance flight instructor in Prescott, said that is about right. These low wages follow what is a notoriously expensive flight-training process. “If you call a puppy mill school, they’ll quote you a number like $60,000,” Kalabus said. The situation was worsened when Congress passed a law in 2013 mandating most aspiring pilots fly 1,500 hours before being hired by a regional carrier, up from as few as 250 hours. “That really closed it off for a lot of people,” Kalabus said. Airlines have just begun to address these issues, specifically focusing on raising starting wages and providing additional incentives such as signing bonuses. “There are ads out there right now that they’ll hire you, blah, blah, and give you a premium to sign on if you’re qualified,” Kalabus said. “They’re not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts, they’re doing it out of necessity. They have to get competitive to get the better people.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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