Kip Powick Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 I am amazed at all the finger pointing, whether it be at management, unions, the government, low cost carriers, or whatever. … One individual even advocates shutting down the airline industry in Canada until you all get “decent” wages… Ain’t gonna happen. Playing the blame game accomplishes nothing except to become more divisive in your approach to the problem. The 3 D’s…Deny, Distort, and Deflect will not work, in this situation or for that fact anywhere except perhaps in politics.:> It really is so simple. You, (the AC employees) have two choices….take a big hit with concessions, (that which has already been given up is moot), and the concessions will probably be pay and benefits/working conditions, and have a job….or………….. end up on EI. Which do you think is going to put more in your pocket?? Don’t like the idea and want to stand on “principle”…….? Try feeding your family on “principle”. Just don’ t like what is going to happen? Move on……. find another job. In times of crisis it’s human nature to quickly forget about those that have really had the rug pulled out …like the Enron and Nortel employees. Time to take a deep breath, look at what you do have and be thankful, at this point, that you are still employed. Most of all…face reality…Nothing is as it seems, and nothing remains the same….. not in this era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cat3 Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 100% RIGHT ON!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cat3 Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 100% RIGHT ON!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest QTIP Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 " It really is so simple" Yes it is Kip. We have nobody to blame but ourselves. Our unions have turned many of our unskilled labour jobs into financially lucrative carreer positions that most university grads would love to have. Well, the $$$ anyway. So to save AC, why don't our unions offer the company " North American Industry Standard Wages" AC has to be on the same playing field with the other guys or the whole thing is going down regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aBusDriver Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 Kip, I respect your views and comments on the airline industry as well as your great sense of humour. I have to say however that I and many others are getting tired of the "take concessions or its EI" mentality. Why does this view always seem to be coming from our retirees? I imagine that you're just as worried about your future. Don't expect the current workforce to take it on the chin for the retirees. Its far too easy for you to ask us to give in to company demands; you don't have to work here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 BusDriver, With respect... that you're "getting tired of the "take concessions or its EI" mentality." means nothing... It's something more than a mentality, it's fast approaching reality. Those that are saying it, believe it. Non retirees included. ....or so I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GDR Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 That is a real cheap shot. In Kip's case if I'm not mistaken, most of his pension is military anyway and I doubt that the demise of AC would have any effect on his pension. It would most certainly effect mine but I would be fine. My house is paid for, the kids are raised, I have savings and I don't have an expensive life style. Not everyone is as fortunate as me. I retired 4 months ago. Most of the people I worked with have young families, mortgages and a life style that won't be maintained if AC tanks. By the time we get to the stage of being retired most of us know that it isn't just about me. I know that I was incredibly fortunate to work for AC just the best times. I just want there to be good times ahead for those that are left, and sure, at the same time I would like to see my pension stay intact. By the way, as far as asking people to give up wages etc all that has been asked so far is that new hires give up the option of a DB plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GDR Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 That is a real cheap shot. In Kip's case if I'm not mistaken, most of his pension is military anyway and I doubt that the demise of AC would have any effect on his pension. It would most certainly effect mine but I would be fine. My house is paid for, the kids are raised, I have savings and I don't have an expensive life style. Not everyone is as fortunate as me. I retired 4 months ago. Most of the people I worked with have young families, mortgages and a life style that won't be maintained if AC tanks. By the time we get to the stage of being retired most of us know that it isn't just about me. I know that I was incredibly fortunate to work for AC during the best times. I just want there to be good times ahead for those that are left, and sure, at the same time I would like to see my pension stay intact. By the way, as far as asking people to give up wages etc all that has been asked so far is that new hires give up the option of a DB plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 It's not just from the retirees. Here at Jazz we're along for the ride with no voice at all. Li threathens to walk if the unions won't cooperate but the unions he's referring to are the mainline unions not my union. I can't call up my MEC to capitulate because they're not even part of it. This goes right back to our CE application and I hope Pineau is watching. We're common employer but we haven't been disadvantaged by it - ya right. I sure feel disadvantaged now. seeker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aBusDriver Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 GDR It wasn't ment to be a cheap shot to Kip, yourself or any other retiree. The company exists today because of the hard work of long serving employees like you. It was merely an observation. I think the real fear among the majority of employees at this company isn't EI (it dosen't last forever) but the realization that they will be entering a job market where they will be paid/offered what they are truly worth. Sorry if I offened anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aBusDriver Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 GDR It wasn't ment to be a cheap shot to Kip, yourself or any other retiree. The company exists today because of the hard work of long serving employees like you. It was merely an observation. I think the real fear among the majority of employees at this company isn't EI (it dosen't last forever) but the realization that they will be entering a job market where they will be paid/offered what they are truly worth. Sorry if I offened anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aBusDriver Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 GDR It wasn't ment to be a cheap shot to Kip, yourself or any other retiree. The company exists today because of the hard work of long serving employees like you. It was merely an observation. I think the real fear among the majority of employees at this company isn't EI (it dosen't last forever) but the realization that they will be entering a job market where they will be paid/offered what they are truly worth. Sorry if I offened anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted April 4, 2004 Author Share Posted April 4, 2004 I imagine that you're just as worried about your future. Don't expect the current workforce to take it on the chin for the retirees. Its far too easy for you to ask us to give in to company demands; you don't have to work here. I am not worried about my future. regardless of what happens to AC, I will not suffer any dire financial hardship...that is just the way my varied flying career worked out.I'm not asking you to "give in " to the company's demands...all I am doing is asking you to do is step back and look at your situation and really think about it.Personally, It think you only have a few choices. That being said, I am reminded of one of the many times CP stood on the edge and as we skooted through the blue, mother nature called and I went aft ...to be set upon by an irate F/A who stated QUOTE I would rather stand in the EI line than give up another cent to this &^*%$ companyUNQUOTE I questioned her about her family,house, car and other ammenities she had, and asked her if she was willing to embrace a radical change in financial status for her "principles" . At the end of the three day pairing the subject came up again and we talked. She stated that she had given the matter serious consideration and was willing to "bend". I think we survived another 3 years and as you know the rest is history. A few of the key words in your response is you don't have work here. No one is forcing you to work there...doesn't matter how much time you have in...if you can't "bend" then you certainly have the option of moving on so I guess it would be safe to say you don't have to work there either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Altitude Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 Now there is a typical stick your head in the sand response from the highest paid regional pilots in North America. How you can think that you are not part of the reason Li walked away? Each of us has to reexamine whether we are truely competitive or not. It does not matter what you made last year. It only matters what others in the industry are making. Because after we are gone, that is all you can aspire to make anyway - if you can find a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 Nope, you're wrong. This isn't about Jazz. We were the first to sign on with concessions, in fact, we were already going down that path well before April 1st. Last spring when Milton asked, the Jazz pilots were the only group to take him seriously. We put together a comprehensive plan to save millions and millions of dollars and the company decided not to avail itself of that. Additionally, the company has not come back to us for further concessions and has not approached us about pension issues. Our union leaders have not made bonehead comments to the media and we have been commended by Farley for our cooperative attitude and preparedness. If this sinks it won't be because of the Jazz employees. seeker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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