Guest GDR Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Of your 100,000 votes how many were going to vote liberal anyway. Latest polls show about 38%. Now you're are down to 38,000 votes. As I have said in other posts the people, other than those directly affected, that would applaud a gov't bail out are by far most likely to be voting NDP anyway. There is a huge constituency out there however who would be really ticked at a bail out and this group might have voted liberal. I believe that bailing out AC is a net vote loser for the liberals, although with all that has happened I can't understand why anyone would vote for them anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigdig Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Its a very good chance that it will play out that way. I once worked for AC so i have a certain amount of insight. In my opinion the model is broken. Whether its bankruptcy today or a slow erosion of workers privileges and remuneration.... one of the two will occur. Now don't get me wrong, i'm totally on the side of the workers at AC, simply because i have many friends who are reliant on the success of AC. I truly hope it works out for the best for everyone but I just can't see that happening. I have lived thru too many times of worker inefficiency and poor attitude.... absolutely pathetic management and poor government management to ever believe that it will all magically work out somehow. There is no saviour on the horizon. The government will not step in either. It is left up to the people at AC to make things work. Even then i believe it will be short-lived unless a complete, metaphorical, decapitation of management... and attitudinal changes of employees... ensues. The company is plagued from within as well as from external issues. The only one of these that AC workers can remedy is from within. If everyone thinks for a minute that the unions are doing what is in your best interest then you are doomed to failure. The unions are protecting what they believe is a sustainable work ethic. It is not sustainable! The unions believe that the best working conditions with respect to vacation, pension, salary and job protection is the best for the employees. That may be the case in certain instances but clearly this is not one of them. Unfortunately the company has poor management so it might be irrelevant if the employees band together and start producing a product worthy of consumers loyalty. But its the only shot you have. I fear for those at AC as i simply cannot see it surviving in any form close to its past state. As i read all these posts i can't help but to think that the writing is on the wall. I hope i'm wrong as i know first hand the devastation that it will cause so many people. The bottom line is that AC has poor management and has had such for a very long time. A certain percentage of employees still feel it is there right and divine privilege for past conditions to prevail. Our government who has played a major role in this debacle continues to illustrate its inefficiences (although it is beyond their control now). I know its easy for me to comment on something that will have absolutely no effect on me. But its so blatantly obvious that AC will no longer exist in its present form in the years to come. Please make the best of it even if you think you are being screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigdig Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 You can't honestly believe what you are writing. There is no government intervention whatsoever if AC fails. NONE!! I can't believe anyone could believe that in spite of your rationalizations. I don't mean to sound harsh but you could not be any more wrong. Please get those thoughts out of your head and then make an informed decision. Events are beyond the control of our government at this point. Election year??? you've got to be kidding. That will have no effect whatsoever, unless a negative effect. There is no saviour on the horizon. Suck it up and make the best of it, or choose to let your job vanish. that is your choice. I'm totally objective here. I have many friends at AC and i truly wish them the best and i have worked at AC as well. But i'm totally without repercussion however things work out. But from my point of view... a belief in something as abstract as 'other investors' or 'government intervent' is absurd. It happened to me and it took me two years to come to grips with it. I woke up one day in a hotel to a phone call that said the airline was shut down. I truly believed that public sympathy or government intervention or subsequent investment would have saved the day. I was foolish and naive. I'm just trying to impart that painfully learned wisdom upon others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 80 Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 I would imagine that if Air Canada truely went under, the government would nationalize it out of bankruptcy and gradually eliminate all North American service with the exception of a few routes feeding into AC's international hubs. Although the government would face a political bloodbath between the massive layoffs that would be required and the ideological opposition to nationalization in this day and age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest A330 Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Totally agree........100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moeman Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 If it came to that, I can't see Ottawa allowing AC to fail then resurrecting them. It would take some time to get a new operating certificate and that would cause too much harm to the national economy. They would have to step in prior to AC failing, and I think they could successfully argue that it is in the best interest of the nation if they repatriate the company but take away the unnecessary competition with WJ, Jetsgo, Canjet, Transat and focus more on bringing Canadians around the world. Don't forget, this is about more than flying Canadians around North America, something the competition can do without AC around. We have a global economy that AC plays a large role in plus there is still a huge demand for a premium product like Executive Class, something none of the competition has nor probably wants due to it's higher cost to deliver. It simply does not fit into their low-cost structure and not one of them would like to step out on a limb so that the others can take turns trying to cut that limb from the tree. Although AC would still need to fly domestically, they wouldn't need to kill any and all competition like they've tried to do since they were privatized. They can allow the competition to do that to themselves without the 800 lb gorilla helping things along. I think Ottawa could sell it to Canadians quite easily. And it might be the best thing for all involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leading Edge Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 All the dirty work has been done. AC will be profitable when it emerges. it has lowered its costs by close to two billion dollars. For the price of one years income tax revenue, AC could be easily saved. You do the math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leading Edge Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 All the dirty work has been done. AC will be profitable when it emerges. it has lowered its costs by close to two billion dollars. For the price of one years income tax revenue from the employees, AC could be easily saved. You do the math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leading Edge Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 All the dirty work has been done. AC will be profitable when it emerges. it has lowered its costs by close to two billion dollars. For the price of one years income tax revenue from the employees, AC could be easily saved. You do the math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaEH Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Until Q4 results come out, nothing is set in stone. Who's to say that AC won't fall victim to its previous ways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leading Edge Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 About two billion in cuts - wages, leasing etc.. Results during CCAA but be viewed as just that, in restructuring, with the associated costs. It's post CCAA that counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Gapper Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 $60K/year baggage handlers with DB pensions proves that AC hasn't come close to the reality of the 21st century airline industry. It ain't gonna fly for long. How long till there are low cost international carriers???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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