Guest Mtc. Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 I keep seeing the "85" hour figure and I was curious as to wether that is 85 flying hours or total hours worked.... I assume it is flying hours as the number seems low for total.... If this is flying time, what is the actual amount of time "put in at work", not including any time to and from of course... Just curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicoChico Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Hours refer to the time the aircraft is in motion. Roughly double the flying hours to get duty time or hours actually spent at work. This doesn't include layover time either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neo Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Depends to a large degree on how you look at it, Mtc, and also to a large degree on the kind of flying a pilot does. To the latter point, you could reasonably say that a pilot spends about an hour before and an hour after the flight in flight preparations and post-flight paperwork. (It will vary considerably, but just use that as a starting point.) You can easily see that if a pilot comes to work 10 times in a month, that it's another 20 hours of "time at work" to add to that 85 hours. However, a pilot might only come to work 2, 3 or 4 times a month depending on how long a period he is away on a multi-day trip. For those pilots, the pre- and post-flight time spent is reduced accordingly. I'm sure you can see how it's difficult to make a blanket statement about it. Perhaps more pertinent is, the 'time away from home base issue'. Do you consider all the time you're away from home as time "put in at work"? Here again, pilots differ in their views about it. You might find (I'm speculating here) that younger and possibly unattached pilots see the time spent on layover, especially if it's in some nice destination, as a bonus. On the other hand, after your upteenth trip to a layover in almost any destination you care to name, many pilots consider it only as 'time we are spending away from home on our employer's behalf'. It's a drag, not a bonus. So, much as it might seem like there should be, there's no direct and easy answer to your question. I guess you could narrow down the parameters in your question and come up with at least an average answer, but it will not reflect the most important point: what do the people who actually do the job want? What do they need to make the job safe for passengers and non-destructive to their personal lives? Historically, the answer is that it's somewhere around the conditions we've had to this point. Will that change long-term as we move in to the future? I do not know. Best wishes, neo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CleardecksforACTION! Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Mtc.- C-C is correct. I would add that if one is senior, it might be done in as little as 1.65x (140 duty hrs), but usually opprox. 160hrs. Cheerio! CDFA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mtc. Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Thanks for the answers folks... It makes it alot clearer...You all have no doubt heard the " you only work 85 hrs a month ???" rants but I knew it couldn't be as simple as that.... Neo, to answer your question "Do you consider all the time you're away from home as time "put in at work"? I sure do...My GFF has diminished greatly over the years and my prioritys have certainly shifted, so I even consider driving to work as time "put in at work"... Any time away from family due work is because of work....That little rant make sense ??? So, time on layovers is probably not something the grizzled old stick shakers would choose to do but have to because of work, so yeah, it's work time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neo Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Your comments make good sense to me, Mtc. Thanks for your reply. neo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Go Around Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 I don't believe the whole story is being presented here. Is the 85 hours not credit hours? One common formula in Canadian pilot contracts for calculating credit hours is actualy based on 3 parameters during a pairing. Hard time/day flown (flight hours),or 1/2 the duty hours for the day, or 1/4 the total time away from base for the pairing - whichever is the greater. The credits hours obtained from this formula shall not be less than the credit hours scheduled for the pairing. Is this similar to the present Air Canada contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sustainable Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Yeah but if you're junior it can also be as much as 320 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neo Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 G/A, It would take a book, or maybe volumes one, two and three to present the whole story. I just mentioned a couple of points, but feel free to expound on any others you wish. And yes, the rules at many airlines are similar to those you describe. neo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CleardecksforACTION! Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Ha Ha! I've been there too! I don't know where you work, but presumably you were being facetious. We have a 1hr flt. credit guarantee for every 2 hrs duty, so that's a max of 170 duty hrs. Cheerio! CDFA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Go Around Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Point is, actual hard time flown in any given month is probably closer to 65-75 hours nes pas? Before anyone decides to jump on this one, the actual sacrifice and work put in to obtain the 85 hours credit can be significant depending on the type of flying (long haul vs short haul or pairing efficiency) as was mentioned higher in the thread. Just trying to present the info a little more accurately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 300 hrs a month in the worst case and perhaps about 200 on average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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