Guest Cabinboy Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Boy - I swear off at looking at this place and finally everyone shows up! To jazzdude and jazz1, and anyone else who honestly believes that "no" is the route to take... Respectfully, you have been working alone too much. This is about rebuilding, and it is going to take time, blood, and guts. My family and I are beginning to male plans to deal with the loss. I am not desperate to work in this industry, I am proud to, and willing to take a hit to continue, rather than restart at a much less rate of pay all together! I have seen about 125 people drop off the list behind me in the last 8 months, and currently have taken a hit in my pocket book, without any paycut on my salary as of yet. I can only hold reserve. Our spirit has always been to try our best to get the junior people back, or save some of that work... partial blocks, no WDOs... well... I am proud to see an agreement that will assist in at least seeing some of them return. EVEN IF ONLY 10 COME BACK IN MY BASE, we have succeeded. I will not take part in attempts to cause this restructure, regroup, and renew of our airline fail. My losses in the new contract stand to be more minimal than they are now, particularily if I can fly a block again, and I will be able to. Particularily if I can get my friends back to work, and I will be able to. Particularily if I can be off this Christmas, as I hit my 15th anniversary... and maybe I won't be this year, but it is a small price to pay for future guarentees,(oh yeah, this is the airline industry - and there are none!) We were not, and would not, have been sold out. If you believe that, then you do not know this union, or these people that gave alot of time over the last few months. I have had the pleasure of working with them all. They have our best interests in mind, as far down the list as they possibly can. To every person that is on layoff - YES means a chance of your return, to your base, to what you love... NO has SERIOUS repercussions. Sarah - I love your voice - you enlightened my evening... The Jazz group is shaping up... to the others, join us, or leave the team... There is no chance of us getting to the playoffs with your current NO spirit. I have negotiated with these people, on both sides, and worked alot with this union on many beneficial issues to flight attendants. They have done nothing less that tried their best... I urge everyone to think about the issues we are facing, the competitive nature in this industry, and why we got into this line of work, and vote with a committment. I overheard an FA saying "I would rather get welfare than work under this agreement" Good luck in the line up, and please don't take my family there. With sincere pride and the utmost respect to all players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Virtual Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Well-written, Cabinboy. Those that would rather 'go on welfare than work under this agreement' obviously haven't been there. They should let someone who is on welfare have their chance - they'd jump at such an opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sarah Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Excellent post Cabinboy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fasteddy Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Hey Cabinboy ..that sure was a great statement as to where "we all are now" ,I hope that others can see that we must pull together, yes ,we can get back to a stable company,and get everyone back to "where they want to be",let's face it, where else is there to go??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest b52er Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Exactly how stable of a company can it ever be with you owing approximately 13billion dollars? When you really think about it, are you actually working for a "company" in its true sense. I thought "companies", to be a going concern, were supposed to make money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest b52er Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Just exactly how stable could you ever possibly become. When you think about it, you owe every Canadian about.......let's see........13billion divided by roughtly 27million people....equals.......hey....my calculator can't take that many zeros to come up with an answer. Now that's gotta be a lot of debt. When do we as taxpayers get to collect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Virtual Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 We could disagree about the 13 billion ... however, it would be about $80 000 000+ a month for the taxpayer to have us stand in line at UI/EI. Be glad that life circumstances hasn't placed you here instead of where you think you are safely sitting ...at least, so far. (By the way...much to my chagrin, I've never seen a taxpayer collect - only pay. Too bad!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DeeSee3 Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Great post and sentiments Cabinboy! Guess we have our work cut out for us , trying to keep all that we have worked for over the years... seems there are a few who don't care about the job and would rather take us down than give up a little for a term ... seems they are the same ones who sit on the sidelines and do not contribute either...very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Goggles Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 "........13billion divided by roughtly 27million people....equals.......hey.." I think that you've got things a$$ backwards here. The debt is owed to the creditors, not the taxpayer. The taxpayer, over the last 15 or so years, has flown at a subsidy, and it didn't come from the government (or your taxes). It came from the low fares that were the result of cut-throat competition between AC and CAIL mainly, where they didn't charge enough to make any money. That 13 billion dollar debt represents that subsidy. It's going to get wiped out (or some of it), so guess who loses: creditors, shareholders and the employees who are about to take a pay cut to fund your cheap air fares. You should thank visionary politicians like David Collenette for overseeing an air transport industry that committed suicide. How's that for a national air transportation policy? BTW, do you eat many donuts? Goggles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nail Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 b52er, FYI, it's 8.5 bil lease-hold debt (A/C lease obligations) and 4.5 bil "hard" debt (bonds, etc) The leases are being negotiated down, as many are at "old" rates. (It's much cheaper to get an A/C today than 4 years ago) An example is the A320. It "used to cost" about 300K/mo to lease one. They go now for about 200K/mo or less. The hard debt is to be delt with on a debt for equity swap...time will tell better on that. The hard debt is almost entirely foreign held, so I guess that means that we owe you (and other Cdn taxpayers) about 9/10th's of fox alpha. Sorry to disappoint you, I know how you love to see other's suffer. Regards, Nail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fasteddy Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 OK..you win ...shut the F%^&565 thing down now,30,000 or so people head for UIC tomorrow, be there early,heck of a lineup...then there is the spinoff's losses, more lineups for this mess...I agree it is a mess..but let's try and HELP clean up the mess..glad to have worked with you,really want to do it again in the future...please ? and besides,I really wanted to compliment Cabinboy on his execellent post, and make sure it did not go unnoticed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest b52er Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Have any AC employees ever considered anyone else other than trying to save their own sorry jobs. You have worked for a company that has created havoc in this industry now and jeopardized thousands of others in related fields. Now you can't pay your bills and others are going to suffer, IE: lease company employees and many others who cannot negotiate any concessions from their employers, other than layoffs due to your bad debt, but hey.....don't worry, you have taken less of a salary and saved your own butts, so I gues everything is going to be okay. That is why you should have been stopped from operating years ago, the collateral dameage would have been far less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Ahhh, just when you think the yard's getting cleaned up, some dog comes along and has a dump right on the well traveled path.... sigh... Now where did we stash those BB's.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peanuts Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Good humour ! You sure know how to keep things lite around here. Thankx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cargo Agent Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Mitch, as a dog owner, I wouldn't normally condone that kind of talk, but seeing as we are referring to one rabid mangy mutt, I'll let you have my stash of BB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest b52er Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Ah Mitch........You know I love dumping right where its gonna stink most. But seriously, don't AC employees realize how much their company has devastated this industry and jeopardized thousands of other jobs besides their own? Unfortunately, like it or not, blame must be dealt out and all fingers point to AC and its history of operating techniques. You or anyone else cannot deny that fact. So why should AC be able to slink away like a rodent into the night only to re-emerge with no different business plan. Your company cannot be allowed to devastate any longer. You have no right to jeopardize others who still have a chance to produce a good product that consumers want. AC has had their opportunities and they have blown them. No more......Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AME Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 b52er The same arguement could be made about WJ coming in and cherry picking and destroying the yields all the best routes, there by putting AC and the industry in it's current state. If you guys would have backed off and left us with an 80+% load factor and the high yield routes we would have been fine. Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Virtual Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 All fingers can't 'point to AC' ....as the other three would be pointing back to the 'pointee'(...you??)!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Ahhh, sigh... if only it were up to you, eh? lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jzdude Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Dear Cabinboy. I'm sure that you don't have to worry about getting laid off. That is why you love the Teamsters so much. They are and allways will be concerned more about protecting the top 20% of f/a's then anything else. I'm not sure if you have read the contract from top to bottom, but suggest that you do. Where are the gurantees that ACJ f/a's are going to be working on the rj 70's? Voting NO does not mean that we are going to "close the doors". Voting No just means that we can not afford to take a several hundred dollar a month paycut. Let the Teamsters stop the enhancment fund and give us back some of our lay over expenses. Perhaps one of the union people can explain that to you. When did this union consult it's members on what we were willing to give up? They been talking to the company since Feb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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