Guest Original AC Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 So can you tell me why you challenged "binding" arbitration to get a little higher up?? At my detriment, and all other AC pilots. Sorry if you find this offensive, I guess the truth hurts...I'll only know if I get laid off when Keller comes out, how do you think that feels... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rance Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 "So can you tell me why you challenged "binding" arbitration to get a little higher up?? oh I see, jazz are whores because we didn't role over and be good boys and girls for the mighty acpa, you don't like cdn guys because they challenged binding arbitration.Funny you'd criticise a group for challenging binding arbitration, what is it you guys usually do when you don't like binding arbitration??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starman Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Both the Mitchnick arbitration and the Keller arbitration were conducted under the auspices of the CIRB. We petitioned the CIRB to examine the criteria and premise used by Mitchnick to justify his award and we were successful in pointing out the punitive nature of Mitchnick's error. Considering that the advantage Mitchnick conferred on Original AC pilots was based on the flawed concept of "equity value" of the jobs within the company that had more unused lines of credit at the time of the merger, and that is now attempting to restructure out of bankrupcy, the CIRB's decision to re-arbitrate using criteria supported by Canadian labour law, is the right one. If you should be laid off because of the coming downbid, and I sincerely hope you don't, I'm sure it won't feel very good at the time. However, under the Mitchnick list, I would be laid off after 22 years service, before a single original AC pilot was touched. How do you think that would feel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Original AC. I think you need to step back for a moment to have a look at yourself and your attitude toward all that's transpired. Your choice of handle is in itself somewhat telling of that attitude. "what each brought to the table" is a phrase I kept hearing again and again a while back... Now I don't want to seem callous, but surely you'd have to re-evaluate just what exactly the AC contingent brought to that table, given recent events which have made it rather obvious? In any case, as was said very well elsewhere by Starman, divisive efforts are not a good idea and will serve no one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PortTack Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homerun Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Mitch, your statement presupposes that AC was in the same financial condition in 1999 that it is now. We all know that wasn't the case. Did you ever consider that as strong as AC may have been, unfortunately it wasn't strong enough to digest CAI and all the baggage that came with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Ahhh yes, of course, it was CAIL that sunk AC. ...and since WD was responsible for the demise of CAIL, what we're experiencing now is all the fault of WD. How silly of me to forget. Mind you, I'm pretty sure most of that "baggage" you speak of was tossed overboard... but we'll continue ignoring that for the sake of illusion... or something, if you like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Ahhh yes, of course, it was CAIL that sunk AC. ...and since WD was responsible for the demise of CAIL, what we're experiencing now is all the fault of WD. How silly of me to forget. Mind you, I'm pretty sure most of that "baggage" you speak of was tossed overboard... but we'll continue ignoring that for the sake of illusion... or something, if you like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homerun Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 C'mon Mitch. Your comment about what AC brought to the table was extremely unfair. For starters since the merger the tech bubble collapsed, 9/11, war, SARS have all happened. To complete the merger AC paid 100 million for CAI's shares, and about 1.6 billion to buy back shares because of the takeover foisted on AC. Without the merge there would be at least another 1.7 billion on the good side of the balance sheet, 17,000 less employees, 1.9 billion less debt, 2.5 billion less in lease obligations, and the losses the last couple of years would have been much less. Are you saying that the merger had no effect in weakening AC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 No, I wasn't saying anything of the sort actually. I wasn't addressing the causes at all. But now that we're on to it, I would say that I think the handling of the merger and the integration afterwards was one of the biggest single causes of the difficulties we now face. ...But I really didn't want to go there.... it's hardly productive or beneficial in any way to rehash that now. I started out by saying that "Original AC" ought to have a look at his position before getting into the "original AC" vs ex-CAIL horse$#!t. It just doesn't come across quite so well now... The line about having "saved" us, for instance, wouldn't have quite the same impact as some of you felt it did. Again, niether that kind of trash talk from him, nor the line of thought you seem to be persuing, are going to help our present situation. I do believe it would be best for all of us if we could completely bury that mess and move on together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 someones having fun watch you guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 someones having fun watch you guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flyingreaper Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 The funny thing about trying to predict what may have happened in the future is that no one can say what could have transpired because it is already in the past. There are so many twists and turns that could have taken place that any form of prediction is impossible. What we do have now is we have one bankrupt airline and we all have to get along somehow for the greater good. Whining about the past or what should have been does nothing but show that your are stuck in the past and unwilling to come up with a possible solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest V1V2Vgo Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Good Speech. Standing for your Picher version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeHomer Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 I think all you whiners should be the first to be laid off. Screw senoirity lists. I'd much rather see your 22 'years of service at different airline' a$$ kicked out the door in favour of keeping a 26yr old RJ F/O that isnt bitter and &%$@! off at the rest of the world. The same goes for 'Orginal' AC pilots that demean the CAIL pilots. You whiners are all the weakest link, GOODBYE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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