Kip Powick Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Victoria......., I feel so miserable not being there, it's almost like being there. :s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rollingrock Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Zipped, how can you say there was nothing wrong with that article? "miltonland" didn't run out of de-ice fluid, GTAA land did. The guy went on for two paragraphs about how he didn't like his breakfast. I guess if he flew wj the article would have been two paragraphs shorter, unless he doesn't like pop and pretzels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starman Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Are you sure the aircraft hadn't just come back from Philadelphia? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cargo Agent Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 You don't find anything wrong with someone blaming Milton and AC for the GTAA running out of deice fluid. This speaks volumes about your credibility in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Retyred Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Fleet- In your missive to the Star's Ombudsman re Decter's article, I notice you concluded with quite a list of contributing factors to AC's 'almost impossible' situation ( some were issues Decter didn't even raise ). Conspicuous by its absence was any reference to employee 'wage and benefits' being part of this impossible situation! I'm sure in your zeal to straighten out the Star, it was just an oversight on your part, right? Or is there any chance you were 'editorializing' in your own right..you know..sanitizing the presentation so that the Ombudsman would get the message that 'you' wished to convey. It would appear that most parties to the 'crisis' acknowledge that wages and benefits are integral to the solution, so I guess they must,in some small way, be germane to the problem. Whether you agree with the premise or not, in the interests of journalistic integrity, I thought you would want to present all the facts as you best know them..much in the same way you demand integrity from other journalists. Might I expect that you will be sending the Ombudsman an addendum to correct this oversight? Just curious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rollingrock Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Retyred, I can't speak for fleet, but i certainly hope your not implying that sars,war,high fuel prices and 9/11 can be compared with employee wages. Last time i checked wages are part of all business expenses, the above mentioned are not. Or am i editorializing also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipped Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 The fact that you don't think I am credible is not important to me. What is though, is that YYZ is prone to winter conditions long after Apr 01 of any year. This situtation has happened before if my memory serves me correct. Milton should be insisting on having de-ice fluid on base until the threat of winter is over. Or does the GTAA and AC not get along????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fleet80 Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 I would expect the Ombudsman to edit my letter for clarity, content and accuracy, exactly as I would expect him to have edited Decter's editorial. I wrote because I took exception to Decter's comment on AC's liability for the de-ice fiasco, the fact that he doesn't know the difference between vitamin C and chemical preservatives, his useless innuendo about aircraft safety and dirty cowls, and his one-sided blame of Milton (accompanied by churlish name-calling), without any apparent comprehension of the state of the international aviation industry we are a part of. I rather liked the reply from Seeker re: employee costs, so will leave it (with thanks) at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rollingrock Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Zipped, how many jobs would you like milton to do? I guess in all his spare time he should walk around with a dip stick to make sure there's fuel in all the trucks. Not matter how hard you tryyou can't blame him for that one, the gtaa ownes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipped Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 When there is a big snaffuuu like the one in YYZ last week. It is definetly Miltons fault. He runs Air Canada does he not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rollingrock Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Yes, Milton is the ceo of air canada, not director of deicing fluid at the gtaa. How could you possible expect him to be resposible for that? Just for argument sake, lets say the night before he called and was assured there was plenty of supply, would it still be his fault? Should he also personally call every airport in the world air canada flies to to make sure there's deice fluid? I'm not a huge milton fan, but posts like yours make me feel sympathetic towards him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Really hard to admit a mistake eh...? Sort of reminds me of an old military cliche...... "Everyone is out of step except ZIPPED" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Virtual Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Clive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Retyred Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Rollingrock- To answer your question..I wasn't implying anything untoward at all. Fleet gave me a reasonable answer which I accept at face value. I certainly know the difference between balance sheet and non balance sheet items..maybe you'd like to back up your assertion that fuel cost (high or low) is not a business expense..and then explain it to AC's auditors. Just to clarify, Fleet noted 7 items in his original list of problems that were making AC's life difficult...4 of them ..SARS, Iraq war, 9/11 and gov't interference are non balance sheet. The other 3...A/P and nav fees, fuel price, and currency exchange are balance sheet items. He wasn't differentiating in his presentation so why would I in my response? Since he was including a mix of what you call 'business expenses' to make his argument, I merely pointed out that he had 'conveniently' omitted the largest dollar 'business expense' of all...employee wages and benefits. Like it or not, they are germane to the present predicament, and arbitrarily excluding them serves no purpose other than to side step reality, or to avoid what many employees refuse to acknowledge. Thanks for the input... he knew what he was doing and was honest about it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Does any one have an address where we can directly e-mail the dink that wrote this trash,what really scares me is this dinks position in life, "Michael B. Decter is chair of the Canadian Institute for Health Information and a former Ontario deputy minister of health. He is the author of Four Strong Winds — The Growing Challenges To Health Care." With morons such as this, it is no wonder our health care system is in the shambles it is in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 What are you saying? The de-icing situation was the fault of the GTAA and no one else but the GTAA,they took over this duty and the airlines pay for that service.The weather people warned of this storm a few days in advance with the exact conditions we received, the GTAA dropped the ball huge on this,not AC, West Jet, Trans AT, your response is outright foolish, in applying your logic, Milton should have made sure all road plows were out along with the salters on the highways.And for this clown Decter to write the article he wrote, should be dragged into court and sued silly for his icredibly ignorant comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M. McRae Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Not a Milton fan but, using your same logic I guess when there is a stoppage on the road you are using, then you are and can be held accountable for the road failure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rollingrock Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Retyred; i'm not sure that wages are the biggest problem at ac. As a matter of comparison, wages are considerably lower at jazz,yet the financial picture is just as dismal there. I do stand corrected on the fuel prices that should not have been included.Although world events such as as war do influence an increase in this cost. cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rollingrock Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 The email address to write to is ombud@thestar.ca i wrote him today also and he actually got back to me right away. says they will be printing a retraction in tomorrows paper a2. still probably wouldn't hurt to write. cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ex-SkyGeek Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Checked the star web site but did not find a retraction. Curious to know if anyone read it in the print edition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted April 23, 2003 Author Share Posted April 23, 2003 Please explain your logic to me, as I may not be so bright, of how it is Milton's fault??? The day before the storm, and the night it started, Globe Ground on the conference calls, assured ALL OPERATORS that they had sufficient quantities of fluid and more was on the way. Yet the next morning, they ran out..... Who was negligent in their duties,,,,, The airlines plan their operations with the information given them 24-48 hours in advance of an "event". Going by that, not just AC, but EVERYONE at YYZ was blindsided by the poor fashion that the GTAA through it's contracted company conducted itself. Just an opinion.... Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted April 23, 2003 Author Share Posted April 23, 2003 It was a tiny couple lines in the lower right side of page 2 in the correction box. Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipped Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Nope, not hard at all. Didn't read all the post regarding the shame that I feel. Just yours Kip. It just becomes difficult some times to hide how I feel towards AC senior management and this forum allows me to vent. I crossed the line and for that I feel shamefull. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ex-SkyGeek Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Crappy tire has a sale on wooden spoons, zipped. Perhaps it's time to trade your old one in. *grin* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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