Mitch Cronin Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 I've just been catching up on some reading in here and I came across a thread below that made me wince! One of my cohorts has demonstrated a little bit of attitude that's prevalent among wrench types.... I first discovered it when I was in Centennial College taking the aircraft maintenance course, and it came from the instructors. They were running pilots down all the time. Pilots don't think... they don't know anything about airplanes... all they can see is their instruments and their paycheck... pilots cant read. etc etc... Every bad snag ever written gets used as an example of how stupid pilots are... All kinds of slurs, and continually, throughout the course. I guessed at the time that it must have come from an initial envy of a mechanic getting so familiar and intimate with an airplane, and then having to turn it over to a pilot who, from the mechanics point of view, would then abuse the thing and hand it back. Plus the pay issue. And the glory... and the girls... After I started at WD I found that attitude all through the maintenance staff... Not everyone of course, but it was certainly a common attitude. Sometimes it got a little help from some arrogant s.o.b. who thought his poop didn't stink. I remember one 747 captain who wouldn't even talk to us, he'd insist we address the FE instead. Having first been into flying, I knew a lot of pilots. Mostly liesure flyers, but some who were moving up and some who probably fly left seat in 47's by now. So I knew all that crap was nonsense. What keeps it alive, I think, is the huge disparity in compensation between the high time heavy captains and the average AME... I know, why would they look at the top wage when the average is so much lower?... I dunno... Maybe they like to dream? Anyway, I'm sorry to say it is alive... Instructors still "dis" pilots. I met a guy from QA in YUL recently who foamed at the mouth when I asked him what he knew about FOQA. He had so much "attitude" I think I'd call it hatred. Anyway, I like to dream too I guess, since I'd still like to see a union structure that had pilots and AME's working together. That'd soon fix that attitude I'm talking about. Actually, I think some better relationship on a professional level could do a lot for both safety and efficiency. I'm sure both groups could make some of our tasks easier if we understood each others needs better. Cheers, Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Greener Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Mitch, very true words. Both ways. After many years in the military and several at AC, I know the AME's are a pilot's best friend...bar none. I must say that the AME's that I have run across at AC have been incredibly smart and nothing but professional and friendly. Maybe some are good fakers, but aside from the odd "why did you call us so late to fix the problem" and "alllllllright we'll send someone over" things have been geat. I imagine there are many "pilot" stories too. The 5% ***hole rule works here I think, for both the pilots and AME. I have the utmost respect for the knowledge that you guys have to retain and especially the broad spectrum of this knowledge. I also totally agree that the better marriage is AMEs/pilots rather than the probable future divorce between AME's/rampies... IMO Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 As I have said before... If there is ONE group in this Airline that is underpaid it is the AME's. There are many that are overpaid for their skill set. I'm sure alot of the animosity comes from the disparity in our pay cheques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ah crap Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Well put Mitch. Having worked in YXU and YYZ I've noticed a few differences. In YXU the norm seems to be bring the plane to the gate and don't make any eye contact with the flight crews as it's just an excuse for them to call you over and delay a flight. In YYZ you want to talk with the flight crews as much as possible. I found I could have a better grasp of the individual planes that way and judge for myself what required my immediate attention. It also helps to chat with the crews and see their point of view. Here's an example. 2 Dash's pull up to the gate and both will be down for a half hour. One has a mainwheel that is pretty much worn out and a couple other deferals and is on it's way to Timmins. The other has an unserviceable recirc fan and is on it's way to London where it ends and overnights in the hangar. It might be easier to ask the crew to take the Dash to London than asking the boys to take the other one to Timmins with 3 deferds. Constantly ignoring to flight crews or having attitudes with them would not ever help the situation. However if the discussion had to resort to the snags and the way they they are written, I'd be more inclined to comment on the cabin snag book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Greener, thank you for the vote of support. I can say that the majority of the pilots I have dealt with have been exceptional people, I have had my run ins with a few but then again I have also had my run ins with a few AME's also. I have never truly thought about the wage comparison between the two groups APPLES and ORANGES in my view point. Regardless of how well each group works with the other, there will always be those who like to stir the pot, just ignore them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted March 23, 2003 Author Share Posted March 23, 2003 I think I'm glad I'm not in YXU then. Cheers mate. Good to see you're still peeking in here from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted March 23, 2003 Author Share Posted March 23, 2003 Thanks Johnny, and Greener, for the comments. As Dragon says below (before he started thinking about assaulting his undercarriage! ), maybe sometime in the future there could be some more evident teamwork between us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Any luck with the on going modification for the cockpit (enlarging the workspace for some individuals egos)???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 The new design ecorporates spandex in the lap seems of the fwd section.LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ah crap Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 D'oh! Oh never mind. Must be the eyes but at first I thought by lap you meant a part of the human body. I better not throw any comments about Krispy Kream donuts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Ummmmmmm Doooooooogh nutssss! Maybe I was talking about the human body, but then again?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 In all seriousness, it has been said, (posted), by a few that they have the highest regard for AMEs. I would like to echo that sentiment based on my personal experiences both in the CF and Civil Aviation. There has been more than one time, especially when a junior birdman on a particular aircraft, where I have called upon their experience and expertise to resolve what I considered a problem. We all know what our responsibilities are as far as our primary jobs go but there are some in the pointy end that feel that they “know it all”. What a crock. I challenge any pilot to know ALL the intricacies, nuts and bolts, glue and other voodoo magic that hold an aircraft together, on par with a qualified AME. I don’t expect every AME to be able to ascertain SGR and I know he doesn’t expect me to know where the 3 bolts are that hold on the engine. As pilots, I would hope the AME respects our ability to fly the machine, but it is a two way street. I would also hope every pilot respects the AME’s ability to do what the vast majority of us can not do. Respect begets respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 Kip, In the nearly two decades that I have been with AC, I can count on one hand the number of run ins I have had with flight crews, I figure that is a very good ratio. I just want the money you 747 guys get,LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted March 24, 2003 Author Share Posted March 24, 2003 Ahhh now that's the spirit. Thanks Kip. ... ... SGR?... hmmmm..?..?.??S...Specific ..G... Gravity.. .. R?... S? .. Simu...naw... S?... Sugar... Sheila... Sally... Situational Garbanzo Rotorooter? Nope, you got me ...at the moment anyway. :s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted March 24, 2003 Author Share Posted March 24, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted March 24, 2003 Author Share Posted March 24, 2003 No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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