J.O.

A 777 flying from DEN to HNL is unlikely to be all that heavy and may not have needed to dump fuel anyways. Besides, most twinjets can land at pretty close to maximum takeoff weight in an emergency.

11 hours ago, conehead said:

Wonder how they got caught?

They probably had documentation that didn't at all resemble what their fellow passengers presented.

16 hours ago, Don Hudson said:

Pro'lly because you can't drive a tractor like that in the city...

Want a bet?  But I can honestly say I never looked nearly that good while doing it!

The policy is supposed to have been in place since Wednesday night but as of last night there was no guidance on it on any government website. Epic fail.

1 hour ago, boestar said:

Here in Ontario they have ben reporting the numbers, which are trending lower, but are adding the fine print that this number includes "catch up" number from previous days.  This artificially inflates our daily numbers, again, which are trending ever lower.

The Governments Response...

Lets INCREASE restrictions.. 

Only the government can take something thats working and make it worse.

 

History is on their side. Last winter when the first cautions about the risks of travel were made public, many people saw it as "China's problem" and travelled anyways. We all know how that turned out vis-a-vis the 1st wave.

3 hours ago, Turbofan said:

They were posting two different signs in the fall.  If you look at the website above, the sign is still up. Your variable roadway argument is a bit lacking because fines are not retroactive.  Oh we just changed the sign to 40kmh.  We noticed 5 minutes ago you were going 80kmh.  Here is your ticket for violating the new speed limit 5 minutes ago.  You should have known better.  You were warned this roadway had variable limits.

The problem isn’t adaptation to the situation.  It’s punishing people retroactively.

Those who chose to travel at this time were rolling the dice with odds stacked heavily against them. It was the equivalent of driving into an ice storm that's been forecast for 3 months and doing it on slick summer tires. Sorry, but I have a hard time being sympathetic.

They aren't posting two different signs though. What they are doing is responding to changing conditions, much like those roads with variable speed limits that adjust with traffic / weather conditions. 

13 minutes ago, UpperDeck said:

So here's a question.....any realization amongst the cogniscenti that mutations occur based on location and "host type"? Enough cases, and Canadians could have their very own "variant". We MAY have the UK or Brazilian variants not by reason of importation but because of locally "bred" mutations.

I agree. The "variants" justification is a red herring, IMHO. This virus mutates - just like most others. There is no evidence whatsoever that mutations are affected by location. The only way to eliminate variants is to eliminate the virus altogether - and we know how well that's gone so far. Travel isn't our primary problem. If it's that important to all but kill transborder travel, then where are the similarly stringent measures to stop community spread? That's the real threat in this situation.

3 hours ago, Turbofan said:

It’s no different than what the government did to the oil industry.  Show industry that you will make their life difficult and expensive.  Investment will stop.

The government doesn't set the world price of oil. 

1 hour ago, UpperDeck said:

I suggest it is (as it always is) all about enforcement. You get a few recalcitrants and put them in jail for a week and publicize the fact....you'll see more compliance. Right now....the undertaking to quarantine is meaningless; online daily check-in...the "no symptoms"  option is highlighted..done! I got one automated call and one "live" call. Both on my cell. Me?? I was home but how many others saw technology as an easy way to dance around restrictions?

A similar strategy has worked very well for the Aussies. They've issued heavy fines and published every example of non-compliance with isolation requirements for arriving travellers. A few foreign travellers were even sent back home, forced to buy last minute tickets via some pretty circuitous routes because nothing else was available, all at their own expense.

1 hour ago, Kip Powick said:

Yes...it is cold in Canada in the winter but imagine how much they could have saved if they had stayed home, and perhaps missed the virus altogether........ and turned up the heat.

Based on her description of how they felt when they arrived, I think they were already infected when they left Canada. So if they'd stayed home, at least they'd have been covered on the medical insurance side.

How nice that some guy most Canadians have never heard of has a spare $55 million to go on a joy ride. 

BC CDC just revised their testing guidance - again. https://www.healthlinkbc.ca/covid-19/testing

"Testing is not recommended if you do not have symptoms, even if you are a contact."

This makes sense. One can come into contact with someone who has it, get infected and be on the path to being sick and still test negative for a few days. I know someone whose spouse became ill in the fall. He got tested and it came back positive. She was then sent for a test the day after his result came back, and her test came back negative. A few days later, she was sick too and a second test came back positive. Contact tracing confirmed they both got it from the same person at the same time, but her infection took longer to take hold than his did.

2 hours ago, boestar said:

I didn't read the whole article.  Did they Mention that the Business plan received a failing grade from his university professor because "It would never work'

No that wasn't mentioned.

57 minutes ago, st27 said:

I posted a pic of years gone by on the Cargo thread.....do people realize how FedEx started?? An interesting read...

 

http://www.fedex.com/downloads/about/company-info/dassault-aviation.pdf

I remember it well. I've always believed that starting off small like that helped them to gain a foothold before the rest of the industry had time to react in a meaningful way. It really was a brilliant business plan.

The former finance minister for Ontario most certainly did try to hide it. He knew there'd be blowback but he took a chance - and lost.

Beyond the optics of her foolish choice, her biggest problem may be yet to come. The TBS does not take kindly to clear violations of the public service ethics guidelines. Accepting such a gift is definitely a huge no-no, even if it wasn't directly connected with her work at PHAC.

2 hours ago, Malcolm said:

Still confusing.... the story says no test, no travel and then says if you come from a country where the test is not available, you can fly but then will be quarantined in a government facility (I WONDER  WHERE THEY ARE AND WHO PAYS)

In Australia, the government chooses the hotel and you pay a daily rate which includes room, meals, laundry services and a daily allowance for beer / wine. It's non-optional and there are police officers monitoring the place 24/7.

1 hour ago, boestar said:

Well I retain the right under authorization of the MTO to DENY you a Drivers License because you fail to meet the criteria set out by the MTO.  If it were a RIGHT I would not have that ability.

 

Say what? You just agreed with me. Please read what I sad again.

In order to obtain the license, the applicant must meet the conditions of issuance. If they meet those conditions, the government cannot deny them the licence. IOW, they met the conditions, they have a right to obtain the certificate. There is case precedent for this.

One thing I learned during my time in government is that if a citizen meets the conditions of issuance for any authorization or document, the government is duly bound to issue it. This is foundational to our system of government and there is no discretion, no matter what the MTO website might suggest. That means that as long as you qualify, you cannot be denied the certificate. That’s as close to being a “right” as one can get in this area. 

13 hours ago, FA@AC said:

Update:  CBC now reports that Canada's ban on flights from the UK will apply for 72 hours only.

They didn't say the ban was only for 72 hours. The NOTAM was issued for 72 hours while they assess the situation more fully. There are a few factors to consider.

Based on the behaviours of most governments these days, that is hardly a uniquely Canadian story. Not making excuses, but it seems we are getting the leadership we deserve as a species.

It was a comparative analogy in response to the notion that most of those dying are elderly - suggesting that the restrictions being implemented are an over-reach because they're going to die anyways.

What I meant is that it's naive to suggest that we can lockdown care homes and no other restrictions are necessary. Health care workers have families with kids in school and they have to shop for food like the rest of us. The primary reason why there's been so much spread in care homes is because of staff members being exposed outside of the workplace.

Imagine putting passengers on airplanes with crew who have to work three part time minimum wage jobs to feed their families. They get minimal training in safety protocols, have no understanding of their right to refuse unsafe working conditions and have no sick day benefits, but somehow, they're supposed to magically show up for work and expose the passenger to zero risk.

2 hours ago, conehead said:

Weird... why doesn’t WJ offer Hawaii from YYZ using the 787?

No carrier since Wardair has made enough to sustain Hawaii out of YYZ. The yield isn't strong enough.