Guest TMF Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Most times when I ask for my sequence I would expect to hear " You are # 2 behind MD-80 traffic, 10 o'clock, slightly high, 4 miles....call the traffic in sight cleared visual 24R." This is the info I am looking for to conduct a SAFE and EFFICIENT approach. It would seem that YYZ and other Canadian controllers fell the need to over control rather than let us do our jobs!! If you think asking for sequence takes up air time, try getting in a word edgewise on the apron freq. " blue 2 where are you ....Blue ...Air Canada 535 you are number 4 to push after the 2 RJ's right to left and a dash 8 at alpha lima and there is a 320 in between the buildings...he waits for you...but you are cleared to push YOUR DISCRETION..." In other countries you get" taxi to parking...good night." Explain this Nancy. As for the comment "why do pilots ask if descent is at their discretion after given descent" If the controller would just say "descend to FL230 at you discretion or start down now" there would be no confusion. It will be the time you don't confirm the clearance that you break an altitude and hit something hard....It is always about safety!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TMF Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Then why do we waste money on apron control?? Give it to the airlines as they do in the states. With regard to my answer on the sequence request...is it not valid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicoChico Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Hey in YVR the tower freq is constantly interupted with ground control chatter!! I think TMF is exactly right when he says the ramp should be turned over to the airlines - we know better which flights are a priority when 2 ask for push at the same time and besides its all at our discretion anyway!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCDU Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 I make sequence requests when I am unsure of how many airplanes I need to watch out for. Even when it isn't a visual approach, stuff happens. Worst example I can think of was on an LDA22 LGA. Just outside the FAF-Controller, using a high-anxiety voice: "AC721, turn L hdg 310." Me:"confirm //L// turn?" controller:"I don't care which way! Just Turn!" -as a Delta 727 turned onto the approach in front of us... Regarding the decent request- sure, if the pilot requested it- it was kind of a bone-head transmission. However, keep in mind that there are 2 pilots. Sometimes one guy will ask for one thing and the other will have something else in mind. Usually we're better coordinated than that, but when you fly with 400 different individuals you're not always on the same page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neo Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Nancy, I'd agree that in many cases sequence information is unnecessary. However, there are times when it can be useful information. Knowing your traffic can influence how precisely you're controlling your speed, for instance. At some airports if you're 12th in the approach stack you might ask for a simultaneous approach to a different runway. At some airports, (YVR being one) you're often given an approach sequence, but being given track miles to run is less common. If a pilot is familiar with that kind of controlling, they might ask for it elsewhere. Etc, etc. As a general observation, controllers become intimately familiar with one airport whereas pilots become somewhat familiar with a good many. It's not always apparent to pilots why controllers want to do things a certain way, and vice versa. But there's usually a reasonable explanation for what both pilots and controllers want, even if that explanation isn't readily apparent to the other. If both pilots and controllers remember that the person on the other end of the conversation is the consummate professional and not given to making pointless requests, I'll bet we'd all be a lot happier. Best, neo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jastefn Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 edited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicoChico Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 2 questios 2 answers It sure would make our job easier, and while you wait for your gate to become available maybe you can let us know where you wish to enter the apron so that you don't block the taxiways. Are you suggesting that you want us to tell YOU where we would like to enter when our gate is blocked? If so I think its a great idea and I will raise the point on our end. Most times I don't say anything simply because I expect you will tell us "where to go" (so to speak). It takes us a second to offer our choice and I will do so under these circumstances (ie blocked gate) in the future.. Now you say you know which flights have priority. Why is it then that even with our help the guy with the latest oceanic slot times always wish to taxi out first? Would the other carriers feel that you know what priority to put on their flights? Kind of mixing issues here but I sure wouldn't want to impose our will on other airlines or get in their way if I could avoid it. Within our own airline though we know which flight is critical for connections and which one isn't. Nothing to do with oceanic slot times which is a whole 'nuther ball of wax. On a YVR overseas, so long as we can find a place to hide if we taxi first and hold a later slot, I don't really have a problem and hopefully you would not either. Cheers Chico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jastefn Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 edited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicoChico Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Thanks...I think we're on the same page. Chico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cancommuter Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Could someone tell me if Cdn regs prohibit controllers form giving you clr. to land until you have the runway to yourself. It seems so many unnecessary comm. take place while TWR gives you your seq many times rather than just clear us to land. If something happens along the approach (ie mechanical on the runway) they can just tell us to go around. After to flying into busy US airports we get a chuckle out of the whole situation coming into YUL, YYZ. No offense intended here, if there is good reason for this type of control I'd like to hear about it. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Say Again Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Here are the MANOPS articles I can offer you: 344.1 You should issue a landing clerance: a. when you are satisfied that the aircraft is on approach to the correct runway; and b. you determine that the prescribed runway separation will exist. 344.9 Advise the aircraft to continue approach but to be prepared fir a possible pull-up if it appears that the runway may not be clear. Put simply, we can clear the next two arrivals to land and depart traffic in between. That's how I was doing it in YYZ. HOWEVER, most of us have been trained the other way from our infancy as ATCs in Cornwall. The argument that the departing aircraft could abort always comes up when I discuss this with people. My answer is that if it's tight and an abort would be a factor, the odds are good that you'd be issuing a last second landing clearance to the arrival at the same time as you got the abort call thereby depriving yourself and the arriving aircraft of the info. Better to have it all done and traffic passed. That is my humble opinion, Cheers, FX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gino Under Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 I`d say some of the best ATC in the world exists across this great land AND continent. YES! Even in YYZ. (which, as you`d expect, has it`s good days and it`s bad days) IMHO, I believe the whining public who push the noise abatement thing, especially west of T.O. and north of T.O. are more to blame than ATC or the aircraft manoeuvering overhead. But, isn`t it more convenient for us pilots to point a finger at our ATCs and accuse them of being bad at what they do? Too bad. Sequence? If you`re 12 track miles to touchdown, what has your sequence OR safety got to do with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.