Guest jzdude Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 Just wondering what any other Jazz f/a's thought of the "new" contract? Why did they not get a buyout package put in like they did at mainline? There are alot of senior people who would like to "sail into the sunset". Yet the Teamsters did not ask anyone what we would and would not give up during the contract talks. Looks like we are also loosing the 2.25 per hour. Also what is happening with the CRA per diem grievence? What would happen if we voted this down?? Hopefully brighter days ahead for us all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peanuts Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 It didn't say anywhere that the $2.25 per hour is gone. Personally I think if it weren't for the ACPA boys (negotiation team) the contract for all of us would have remained the same. Sept 11, SARS, all did a number to the airline business. BUT...ACPA was the final straw for AC. Mainline employees and Jazz employees have to suffer the long term effects of what that lovely Association has done to ALL of us ! Am I bitter after seeing the contracts ? Yeah, a wee bit. All in all I am still very happy to have a job. Some of us don't anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maranatha Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 'Nuts, how was ACPA the "final straw?" Care to elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peanuts Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 Sure,...but you are always rather mean (sorry) I (my own opinion for what it's worth) believe that if the bargaining commitee had been a little more understanding a while back and clearly understood that AC was real FAT in pilots, lay-offs would have started sooner like it has at Jazz. Money would have been saved sooner. Now I could be wrong help me understand this one, but why was there not some sort of concession made to do the same at the mainline ? Or perhaps there was. Pilots at AC account for about 5% of all the employees but in wages they take up to about 25%. Now don't go yelling at me I am willing to be more informed. Am a quick learner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jzdude Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 About the 2.25per hr, spoke to a union rep in YVR who confirmed that it's history. Also the company is trying to extend the leases on the 146's, so maybe some good news. But there are going to be more lay offs(temp), around the fall of this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peanuts Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 Well, I guess we just have to be thankfull we still have a job. Saw that contract and it sure ain't purdy. Guess my Reserve days are numbered. I was under the impression that the leases for the 146's had already been renewed ? Gee, you just never know who to believe anymore, huh I do understand why items that were given up are gone. NBG, $2.25 per hour, am/pm reserves, 25% benefits. It all was pretty nice. Oh well,maybe they'll be back one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CJ Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 Can anyone tell me if there is a copy online. If not what are the gory details? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peanuts Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 Would love to give gory details, but someone on line may read them and lash out for one reason or another. Tell ya (which we all already knew that it would happen) that the scheduling and Reserves have been changed a fair bit. If you like I'd e-mail you them or wait 'till you go to meetings. Where is your base and I'll tell you where the meetings are and when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maranatha Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 Hey Peanuts, didn't mean/intend to sound mean...just plain spoken. Sincere apologies if that's how it came across. I really can not speak to the Jazz situation, but I do know that, as far as we were informed, that having made requests for concessions, Air Canada was not, according to ACPA, as forthcoming as they could have been, for whatever reason, in the information that ACPA had requested as part of the Due Diligence process. Whether or not this was a contributing factor in the delay, I'm not sure. In any negotiations in the airline industry there is always posturing on both sides. Problem is, that we are all in this thing together. Cordially, and no venom intended, IE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peanuts Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 Thanks soo much ! If only we could all just continue to try and get along. We wouldn't all be so bitter at times. We are all in this together. It's up to us to make the best of it. "God" I feel like I should be attending church on Sunday All this has made me a nicer person. (I think) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lizard Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 Looks like the contract we had at CRA prior to the Teamsters. Also, it represents a 10% wage cut, one of the highest cuts among the 9 union groups, and that's without including all the other financial losses ($2.25/hour, benefits, cuts to pensions, etc.). I guess that makes us even more competitive when it comes to the new aircraft and/or Zip! But overall, it's still better than at CRA 2 years ago, and I still have a job (for now). If only we can get the aircraft, I'd say things could be looking up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peanuts Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 Hi, Yes, that is what someone else told me as well. I remember you guys weren't very happy with it. Guess we get the chance to have a tatse of it too. Oh jippee !! It's too bad though. The negotiation team had a rough go to get that contract. At the end of 6 years (is it 6 or 8) they'll be having to fight for it all over once again. But like you, am happy I still have a job. My biggest dissapointment is that I'll see less of my kids once it is ratified and all in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jzdude Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 The union has allready said that there are going to be more layoffs when the contract is brought in. So is there a reason that the Jazz f/a's who have been messed around for so long are being told to take a 10% + pay cut, when other employee groups are being asked to take alot less. I don't know about anybody else but the more I read this "new" contract the more my vote is going towards the no side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin J Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 Lizard, Like the former CRA agreement? Get real! They're not at all alike. As for the per diems, do the math on a cross section of F/A's at your base keeping in mind that per diems when flying to or from the US will be paid based on US dollars. Also, nothing in our current collective agreement is "gone" until ratified by the membership. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peanuts Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 hey kevin, how the heck are you ? long time no see. I know you guys worked your butts off in the past few weeks. It must have been crueling. It is sad to see that all we had worked for in the past in the past is (not all ofcourse) is gone. None of it your fault. But hey, we are still here, alive and kicking up a storm. Hope to work with you again sometime soon. Yvonne f/a yyj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peanuts Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 Do you want a job ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin J Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 Good to hear from you Yvonne! It is sad to see the state we're in for sure but like you said we still have a heartbeat. I'll be at the meetings in YYJ and hope to see a good turn out. Talk to you soon. Kevin J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peanuts Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 I'll be there ready to sign "yes" Look forward to seeing you there ! Lots to talk about Yvonne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jzdude Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 Yes of course I want a job Peanuts. I'm not sure which company that you started out with but the one that I started with we kept giving and giving and it still did not help. My point is, we are all giving back so much why is this company not doing something for its employees that does not cost them a dime eg free flights within NA and for International only charge us the cost of the meal. Also I along with alot of other f/a's think that we should not have to cut our wages 10%, while other groups are only being asked for 1.5%. I understand the company is in rough shape but there is a right way and a wrong of going about and doing things. That the Teamsters are sitting back and taking this surprises me. Before I sign anything yea/nae, the union is going to have to answer a few questions. Also one more thing Peanuts, i'm not too sure how much you know about our contract but did you know that the company pays teamsters 10 cents for every hour each f/a works. Supposedly it goes in to some fund. Why does the union not give that up and restore our per diems? Again just my opion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maranatha Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 Amen to that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DeeSee3 Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 Hey Jzdude, I hear your frustration , former CRA people definitely went through alot , had to give up , and yet recieved little or no change in bad management for their sacrifices. But you are incorrect to assume that this situation is anything like the downslide at CDN airlines. Don't think free pass benefits would have made a really big change in how we feel about the cuts , the costs for passes we are paying now are not unreasonable (except maybe all the taxes-- AC doesn't have control of those) especially compared to the fare you would be charged if you didn't work at AC. I have seen this number of 10% , how is is being arrived at , the proposal is 7.5%...with no increase in scheduled hours for block holders, I can only surmise you are somehow adding other concessions up to arrive at this figure. You have stated you understand that the company is in rough shape , what right way/wrong way would you have taken with the employees? I'm not being adversarial , just wanting to know how you would view this "right" way to take money back from employees. I don't believe that the Teamsters are just sitting back and taking this... In fact , I believe many heart wrenching hours were spent by your business reps and negotiations team pouring through the details that would affect you the least , If you don't believe this then by all means talk to them personally , and ask your questions. As for the industry advancement fund to which you refer , you have every right to ask where this money is going , but keep in mind the Teamsters have not come to you to ask for an increase to your dues to pay for the lawyers for the CCAA and can still somehow afford to do the roadshows to present this revised collective agreement to you , not something that can be said for other union groups! Personally I was surprised and relieved at the excellent job done by our negots team and reps... not nearly as painful as it could be , and still leagues ahead of the previous CRA wages and agreement ( which by the way is where I thought we were going). And quite a bit better than EI... IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nova Zemlya Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 Nice to see how the senior members take pride in the Teamsters negotiating skills yet no special consideration for the fact that the concessions are mostly borne by the junior people. The senior people mostly browbeat and admonish the junior for the fact that they still have a job, but the likelihood is that many will be laid off, and the ones that are left will be paid much less than Zip. How noble and generous that they should give us the best of their advice under the circumstances. Many people will also find themselves suddenly on reserve and paid a heck of a lot less than they are used to with no control over their lives. Why don't the Teamsters discuss this very subject in a newsletter? Why are the Teamsters so adamant that people show up to their union meetings so they can be told that their jobs and working conditions are gone, or subject to binding arbitration? I would not be surprised if this TA gets voted down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peanuts Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 valid opinion jzdude, We'll all be asking lots of questios at the meetings. Hope you get the answers you are looking for. Take care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peanuts Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 "Oh go suck on a banana!" Do you always and always have to be so bloody ignorant ? You're oh woe is me attitude is starting to get booooring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DeeSee3 Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 Gee Francis, If you really have any balls at all , and really believe the BS you posthere and elsewhere , Just quit and do us all a favor! Perhaps you'd like to take a shot at how our most junior people will work for less than Zip , when by far a majority of the juniors hold all INCHARGE. We are all very tired of your lame "senior people have all the control" crap , feel free to try another union that puts junior people first , with all the best benefits... Oh I forgot ,that may not work out for you either now that you're #124 out of 252 in YYZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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