exGXer Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Now that the ACPA group is facing a layoff situation it amazes me how the topic of discussion turns to how we can merge the ALPA and ACPA groups "for the good of all concerned". ACPA from the time of its inception has done nothing for the good of anyone but itself, and the rest can go to hell. Amazing, truly amazing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dick Dastardly Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Agreed. Unfortunately, the ones facing layoff are primarily ex CDN guys that had nothing to do with the events of the past. We were placed on the bottom of a list that included a bunch of RJ's pilots. (unlike the CDN list where the RJ's or F28's were at CRA) To make matters worse, these airplanes are now leaving. Believe me, it would have been far better if you'd have had these airplanes all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leftbase Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 It seems to me that that the principal mandate of any union is to protect and further the interests of it's members, be that as it may at the expense of any other associations. So you might say, ACPA has served its mandate in the past. And ALPA members would be well served to keep that strongly in mind when ACPA starts playing the "for the good of all concerned" tune now that the speculation has turned to possible gains for Jazz... Ahhhh...As the Canadian Aviation Industry Turns...appreciating my comfortable seat in the audience right now..lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GDR Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 As I started the thread which I assume you are referring to I guess your comment is aimed at me. I would just like to point out that if you want to check through the archives you'll find that I have always supported merging the lists in the manner that I re-suggested today. Greg Robinson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SARP Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Don't take the comments directed at ACPA personally Greg. If more AC pilots were the calibre of person you are, we would never have found ourselves in this sad situation. As a Jazz pilot, I don't want to see any pilots laid off. Maybe we will all be laid off permanently. It's pretty hard to forget the past so quick but with time I hope we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jimmy Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 ExGXer, it might surprise you to know that there has been a lot of discussion by many ACPA people for some time about a merge/flow through or some other accomodation with JAZZ. This was long before the current circumstances. Believe what you want but that's the truth. jimmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DashTrash Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gunny12 Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Dick D said: "Agreed. Unfortunately, the ones facing layoff are primarily ex CDN guys that had nothing to do with the events of the past."....... How'd you like to back that statement up with a few of those credible things called facts!! You're spreading B.S. with those kind of comments and they really don't move the thread forward. Believe me, a lot of other pilots at AC (read hundreds) will be furloughed prior to ONE ex-CDN pilot losing their jobs. Patiently awaiting the facts, gunny12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Par88 Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Our anger and frustration is well documented and understood by most, I think. In reality, those most resposible in the ACPA group are small and those who are going to loose the most are our's that got tired of fighting. I would hate to hurt many in hopes I damaged a few. "Cluster bombs" sure make a lot of innocent people victims. Besides all that, our fight has done tremendous damage to the corporation as a whole. Maybe we as pilots should quit thinking soley about ourselves and re-build our failing company and our standard of living. At least that way when we passed in the terminal the "How ya doin'?" would be real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Virtual Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Depends how you're looking at it and how far back in the past you're going, I guess. Remember that they were also facing layoffs just before the 'merge' with AC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jimmy Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 GURK, please remember that there are three sides to this story. ALPA's, ACPA's and the truth. jimmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dick Dastardly Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 My apologies and no offence. You're right, there are a couple of hundred on the bottom that have been around a couple of years that will be furloughed first. There's no BS here though. If 600 are furloughed, most will be ex Canadian guys that have been around much longer than 2 or 3 years. Canada's coastline 202,080 km arable land: 4.94% Population 31,902,268 (July 2002 est.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bulldog Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Firstly, there are many of us who have hoped for common ground for years. It has little to do with the present situation other than the company will once again pit us against eachother which would be nice to not get suckered into for a change. Second, when ACPA acts to make our profession a respected one, deserving of a good salary and working conditions, they are working for you too. As pilots, we don't operate in a vacuum. What one pilot group attains in a contract has an effect throughout the industry. However, when ACPA ignores merger proposals from without or from within, they have their priorities out of whack and hurt our profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stick man Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stick man Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillyBigToe Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 There were +/- 380 pilots hired after January 4th 2000. Obviously "first to go" then it's 3:1 "original" Air Canada pilts to "original" Canadian pilots. So it is quite far from the truth that ex-Canadain pilots will be harder hit with any possible lay-offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CJ Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 The fact that ACPA came into being because even ALPA couldn't pretend anymore what was happening to the Regionals was grossly unfair. ACPA has had a stranglehold on this industry. The ridiculous limitations put upon the company to build proper route structures with proper Aircraft. I have never understood how one group of people feel they deserve more than another group. Can anyone tell me what is the difference in carrying 50 pax or 300 pax. Is there something about flying larger A/C that makes you more deserving. Do people who fly Dash 8's RJ's 146's F-28's not have the capacity to type train? Isn't that really the ONLY difference between the two groups? The two tier system within one company will always make for bitterness. I believe DOH for everyone. When you begin with Air Canada you fly a D8 onward and upward. Imagine one group of individuals working for one common cause. (The demise of Westjet. LOL:) Really' I'm just kidding Westjet people.) The survival of Air Canada. I hope that now there are many people involved in the rebuilding of this company common sense will prevail, the decision is out of your hands now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GDR Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 OK. You say DOH for everyone. Let's start with that today. Everyone hired in the future will be DOH. In the meantime pilot currently on either Regional or mainline list was hired under a different set of parameters. Let's respect the rules under which they were hired, flawed though they might have been, by putting the lists together in the way that has been suggested. At least we can stop the problem from being perpetuated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jammed Balls Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 >>There were +/- 380 pilots hired after January 4th 2000. Obviously "first to go" then it's 3:1 "original" Air Canada pilts to "original" Canadian pilots. So it is quite far from the truth that ex-Canadain pilots will be harder hit with any possible lay-offs.<< Wrong... the Mitchnick award... before any Air Canada pilot on base as of the award date (Jan4/2000) is laid off the bottom 442 ex CAIL will go... this is a sliding 442, until 2010, when there will only be 135 ex CAIL left who are not on the list. So layoff go like this... the pilots hired after Jan 4/2000, 442 ex CAIL then the guy hired at AC Dec 1999 (BTW the 442 would hit people up to about 18 yrs sen I believe) This may all be changed very shortly by Keller ~SB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemic Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Whoaaa GDR. Did you see what trotted out while you were closing the door? "Everyone hired in the future will be DOH." How about we back that 'future' up to around Jan 4th 2000? ...Not likely I suppose. Tell me though. If you COULD turn back the clock, would you do it differently? The connectors? The red/blue merger? Mitchnick? CALPA? On second thought, don't bother answering. I didn't want to hijack this thread, and we'll be better off hashing it out over a beer at the PI one day. Many beers likely. And I'll even bring "zipped". Promise. mic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GDR Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 I think we spend too much time on these forums but the beer at the PI sounds good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gunny12 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Where have you been? Mitchnick has been struck down by the CIRB. That's why we are now working with Keller!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jammed Balls Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 The Keller award is still work in progress... I certainly hope the award will be out, and implemented before the up-coming down bid, however it isn't a done deal yet (as you imply)... Only 58 months to go here, 368 months behind me... I can see the light at the end of the tunnel... I can hardly wait... maybe I can get reduced time for good behaviour! ~JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Goldberg Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 well, after all, it was you and your gang of under achievers that sucked the life out of a strong, growing airline........... i am soooo tired of the constant whining that seems to be part of the CDN culture...... everybody owes you a living........ do us all a favour and quit......... here's a good repost for ya.... xoxo http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20030403.RERIC_2/TPStory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dick Dastardly Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Sure thing Goldberg! "sucked the life out of a strong, growing airline." Yeah..ok, nothing to do with 911, war, SARs or an over leveraged balance sheet. Unlike you, I will not stoop so low as to call anyone at AC under achievers as I have been in this business long enough to know that one can't draw those kinds of generalizations. Thanks for your comments though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.