ALPA's future

[Guest Glen Comerford]

I normally do not post on any forums because it is had to convey your message over this type of medium. This time I feel that I have to say my part.

We as pilots are on a very slippery slope in our industry at this point. We are belittling our value at every point in this discussion and by our actions. I realize that there are many factors that have brought us to this point but they are in the past, I am trying to look at the future of our profession. Right now we are looking at removing the protection of aircraft in our contracts. This is a very scary proposition for us all. The pilots at jazz at this point feel that if they are able to obtain the 75 to 110 seat range that they will be improving their careers but they will be doing just the opposite. Sure you will have new aircraft to fly, which would be fun and you will probably be hiring so you would advance, UNTIL the company says that the Dash 8 work will be flown by Air Georgian and they are going to give them some Dash 8 400s. Air Georgian will fly the Dash 8 for the same price that they fly the beach 1900. Why not it suits the logic of the way things are going. The next thing you will say is we have scope in our contract to protect us, but the precedent is being set here folks. There has to be a change in thinking! I have never understood the reasoning that because a marketer at bombardier decided to call the CL-65 the regional jet that it has to be flown for a regional company, the Dash is not called a regional prop. The pilots of Jazz are an intelligent and a great bunch of pilots but only see themselves bettering their lives by obtaining more of the flying from Air Canada. This is very short sited on their part and I hope that the anger that is blinding them will disappear over time. Right now the pilots of Jazz are setting the top of their careers at a very low level. Jazz may get more airplanes and routes but your pay will never equal the rest of the industry or what you could obtain by cutting a deal with ACPA. Air Canada Pilots are now the lowest paid pilots of the Star Alliance and that gap will only increase if we allow it. The regionals have done very well in their contract talks in past years but things have been sliding as you have tried to obtain a greater net work of flying. You have the CL-65s but at what price just ask the Air Ontario Captains if they are flying it for less money and if their working condition have improved.

I have never understood the reasoning of not taking a flow to the regionals to the mainline. I know you did not get your merger way back when but you are saying you lost something that you never had, a number in the Air Canada seniority list. If the worst case scenario happened at any time since then of bottom of the list at Air Canada, you would be making more money a chance at other aircraft and be looking at a better pension. I know that now we are in bankruptcy at this point so it is mute. We have to look at the future of the people of our profession. Jazz may be winning the battle at this point but we are all losing the war. When we are looking at the wages and conditions of our profession we are becoming a third world airline. We will at Air Canada and I include Jazz have many of our pilots making less than the Air Canada in-charge flight attendants and some baggage handlers.

WE ARE NOT changing the model just ask Canadian people they gave and gave. The F28 captains were flying for a lot less than you are giving to fly the CL-65 and they still went down. I hope that we will all see the light, we just have to open our eyes!!!

Glen

[Guest regional for life]

There's a simple phrase for this, it's called 'the race downhill'.

If we all cave the race continues. Being up against management scare tatics again and again does not help the race and they know this. If management has their way, we will definitely be glorified bus drivers making bus driver wages one day. Of course, by then the experienced pilots who have chosen not to 'whore' themselves out to the profession they ultimately love will have quit.

What's left are inexperienced pilots flying for low wages. A few smoking holes later and the management/public will see our worth.

BTW this applies for both the majors and regionals. It's all relative. Fly Safe.

[Par88]

I don't think anybody thinks that ACPA wages have led to 12.7 billion in debt.
Obviously some poor management decisions and destructive government policy have led to the decline in the industry. Not a single airline pilot in the country wants leading standard of living to decline, however, failing to restructure AC now will put WJ at the top of the heap (not meant to sound like a slight) and leave all the "AC family" of pilots fighting with each other for a piece of whats left. If you think obtaining a deal with ACPA is tough, try getting a deal with ALL of the other stakeholders without one.
The F28, I think, was a poor example as CRA went down with the mother ship. (please, I'm not trying to draw this one out)

[bluemic]

I thought I'd jump in here, 'though Lord knows I could've picked a few other threads.

But "regional for life's" post seemed rational and I thought it might be timely to attach to it.

First, I am not an original ACPA member. I came in through the blue, er, back door. And while I wasn't intimately involved in Picher, the CALPA withdrawal, the law-suit, etc, I certainly am an ACPA member now. And I stand firmly behind what our MEC/negots committee is trying to salvage over at the YYZ Hilton this evening. Because everything that our committee is doing is an attempt to preserve OUR profession. In a way, ALL of the profession. And they do it because THEY SHOULD.

I've also just watched Mr. Di Cinto (sp?) at his mini-press conference. And while I certainly have my own thoughts about "lowering the bar", "bidding on jobs", etc, I also understand that he is simply trying to get the best deal possible for his troops. AS HE SHOULD.

But when all of this is over, I believe that it is absolutely necessary for both of our groups to sit down and try to resolve our differences. To try and attack the problem like the adults we are supposed to be. Like the adults they pay us to be. And strive for the logical conclusion.

It may be utopia, but I believe we can do it. Yes...we'll have to muzzle some of the more "vocal" antagonists...and both sides are going to have to swallow some crow...but it is in everyone's best interests to find a common ground.

The ultimate goal is to make this as safe and as rewarding a career as possible. To the benefit of both our passengers AND ourselves.

And the sooner we do that, the better.

mic

[Guest RVR1200]

"I've also just watched Mr. Di Cinto (sp?) at his mini-press conference. And while I certainly have my own thoughts about "lowering the bar", "bidding on jobs", etc, I also understand that he is simply trying to get the best deal possible for his troops. AS HE SHOULD."

Mr. DiCintio is not lowering the bar...he's only trying to protect the jobs of his pilots just like ACPA's doing. Jazz is laying off. The notices are out.

It's frustrating to taxi out of a station and watch ZIP or TANGO come in right behind you to do the same run. Really, is an 83 NM leg in a half full 737 economical?? That half full load is a full Dash 8 run that's gone off the schedule.

It humours me to see how many ACPA members that are now thinking that the 2 sides should sit down and figure this out after this is all done. Before this, we weren't even part of the company....or were we??

[Guest regional for life]

There's a simple phrase for this, it's called 'the race to the bottom'.

If we all cave the race continues. Being up against management scare tatics again and again does not help the race; and they know this. If management has their way, we will definitely be glorified bus drivers making bus driver wages one day. Of course, by then the experienced pilots who have chosen not to 'whore' themselves out to the profession that they ultimately love will have quit.

What's left are inexperienced pilots flying for low wages. A few smoking holes later and the management/public will see our worth.

BTW this applies for both the majors and regionals. It's all relative. Fly Safe.