Guest V1V2Vgo Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 A small point. Accountability. We all have to be responsible for our past actions. Why the huge woe, when in fact, ACPA has stomped on the regional pilots at every opportunity. The very root of the problem is the Regional Jet. ACPA caught wind of the order for RJ's for the regionals, and promptly captured those aircraft. No other airline in the world, to my knowledge, has mainline pilots flying RJ's at a mainline pay rate. Please quote examples, with rates of pay, if you know of any. It is not economically feasible, this has been proven. Look at our current situation, is ACPA not at least a wee bit responsible?? One other example: During the last downturn in the industry, AC pilots were facing a layoff. But hey, why not merge with the regional, exercise our seniority, and take some of their jobs. The regional fellas, bound by the constitution of CALPA, agreed to a binding arbitration generated list. Picher was the result. By now, the economy was on the rebound, so no need for a Dash 8 job now. The small matter of the merge they initiated? We'll just walk away from our obligations, (read, leave the union)and form ACPA. MY POINT; Look in the mirror. Your actions to date do not support your request for "Call off the media dogs" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Labtec Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Swiss flies the rookie jets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Labtec Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Swiss flies the regional aircraft. They did what you suggest we do and now they are also again facing bankruptcy. Stick to flying airplanes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skirt Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Mainline pay rate? I'm in the RJ left seat at AC and pull in around 85K (for now) and I routinely fly with RJ FO's making 50-55K. How much does a Jazz RJ Capt make? and for that matter what about a senior Rampie (factoring in OT)? (before this new contract restructuring that is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gunny12 Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Skirt; Don't hold your breath waiting for one of our brethern from Jazz to answer/counter your post. If what Robert/Calin et al. want were to go thru, as a 3rd year formula pay RJ F/O, I'd be in the $46K range (not including per diems). Not exactly what I had in mind when I left greener pastures to come to the mainline.... Let's hear how it costs AC $300K/year to man the RJ at the Mainline..? The tripe being spread on this board by uninformed buffoons is truly astonishing.... Cheers, gunny12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nigol Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 "Let's hear how it costs AC $300K/year to man the RJ at the Mainline..? The tripe being spread on this board by uninformed buffoons is truly astonishing...." The post below makes mention of "$300K/yr per crew...". I think it was because the AC RJ pilots have bid on bigger equipment but are waiting for their seat on the bigger toys. So they get the big toy wages while flying the RJ. I know of RJ Captains at $160K/ year. Is this the way it works? Correct me if I I am wrong. Personally I don't think its that much. Sometimes people on this forum only read what they want to believe. We are all guilty of that. See you in the EI lineup, I'll be the one wearing the "Truckers are US uniform". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 ACPA pilots like to claim that their RJ rates aren't that much different from Jazz. Although there is some truth to this there is one significant point that is often, conveniently, not mentioned. Their contract has, or had!, a provision that ensured no FO in the company made more than any Capt. This means that after a few years on the RJ a Capt would move off the RJ scale and get paid at the Airbus FO rate. I don't know all the details of how this works but my understanding is that at about the 4 year mark an AC RJ Capt will make the $ 160 k. There is a scale for the RJ that goes to 12 years but not a single Capt on it past 4 years. The other thing to remember is that an ACPA pilots is also twice as expensive for other benefits like medical, dental, vacation etc. And for every ACPA pilot there is a whole slew of other AC employees that are also much more expensive than their Jazz counterparts. seeker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skirt Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 You're right in that after 4 years you jump over to the 320 f/o scare. Where your info is incorrect is the amount the 320 FO makes. It's around 98-100k at the 5 year mark, not 160k. BTW, a 340 or 767 FO makes more than an RJ Capt (so does a 340 RP for that matter), so there is no such thing as "a provision that ensured no FO in the company made more than any Capt." in our contract. Hope this helps to clarify things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Yes, now that you mention it, I did hear that the 340 and 767 FOs make more than the RJ Capts. I'm not sure that I completely accept your wage for the 5 year FO - since you say that the RJ Capt moves to the Airbus FO scale at 4 years. In any case, the often stated bit about how the the rates aren't that far apart is a red-herring if no one is actually on those rates, isn't it? seeker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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