Guest airmail Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 See ACPA's game play to date to ground this airline excerpted from today's Monitor's sixth report, available at www.stikeman.com. Excerpt from Sixth Report of the Monitor May 29, 2003 23. Air Canada Pilots Association (ACPA): ACPA represents the Air Canada pilots. Since the initial meeting of all unions with Justice Winkler on May 12, 2003, ACPA has taken the position that it would not participate in the labour mediation process. 24. The Monitor received a written request for detailed information concerning the May 21, 2003 presentation from counsel to ACPA on the afternoon of May 23, 2003. The Company and its financial advisor, with the assistance of the Monitor, responded immediately with a process to provide the required information that weekend and into the next week. 25. The Monitor contacted representatives of ACPA on May 26, 2003 to ascertain their position on the Company's proposal and to determine an approach to discussing a proposal by ACPA. Very early in the morning of May 27, 2003, ACPA presented its proposal to representatives of Air Canada management and the Monitor. The proposal delivered by ACPA concerning its collective agreements deviates materially in structure and approach from the company's proposal and contains a short term cost reduction target and an approach to resolving the long term issues facing the Company from ACPA's perspective. The company presented a counter proposal to ACPA on the morning of May 27, 2003. Although meetings were held, ACPA did not respond to the Company's revised proposal by the deadline of 5:00pm on May 27, 2003. At the request of ACPA, Justice Winkler extended the deadline to 9:00pm on May 27, 2003. The company did not receive a response to the revised Company's proposal by 9:00pm on May 27, 2003 and indicated to the monitor that further time and information was necessary. 26. At the request of Justice Winkler, the Applicants delivered their final proposal to ACPA at approximately 12:00am on May 28, 2003. The Company requested that ACPA advise the Monitor of its response to the final proposal on May 28, 2003. The Monitor has not received a response to the final proposal at the time this report was finalized. The Monitor and the Applicants undertook to provide information and to answer questions from ACPA concerning the Company's final proposal during the course of the day and evening of May 28, 2003. 27. While talks were ongoing on May 27, 2003, counsel for ACPA delivered a notice of motion seeking leave to appeal from the order and direction of Justice Farley dated May 9, 2003 appointing Justice Winkler as facilitator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kilo Mike Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Well well.... Here we have another "threat" coming... Guess the board is starting to feel some pressure. GOOD!!! Just so the folks understand. The ACPA MEC is getting HUGE support from the pilot group and quite frankly is going to do what's best for the pilot group. Opportunistic poaching by Jazz and the completely imbalanced request for cuts will not fly one bit with the pilot group. We have the intel..and we have the numbers..... bottom line is BS doesn't fly. Standing by KM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nova Zemlya Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Well, I guess Uncle Milty is an evil genius after all. But just remember when you peer from the window of your aircraft thrones and start foaming at the mouth when you see anyone flying an airplane in Canada, and when you reach for that lever of economic power, make sure it is not either a one-armed bandit or hatch-arm to oblivion. There isn't a single regional employee that hasn't had to face the very same thing you are going through now. So stand up, be a man, and cease with the histrionics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kilo Mike Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 I'll say it again... We have the support... we have the intel..and we have the numbers... BS doesn't fly !!! KM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kilo Mike Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 We have the support... we have the intel... And we have the numbers.. BS doesn't fly and the company is starting to realize it !!! http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/030529/airlines_aircanada_union_1.html KM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rance Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 "opportunistic poaching by jazz" Let's see, acpa walks away from binding arbitration and recently submits a proposal that would eliminate jazz completly.Whos opportunistic? Jazz comes up with an viable economical solution to help the company survive.Kilo mike when your done wiping the tears from your eyes you might be able to see that the company can't afford to pay an rj crew over $300k combined per year.Besides only in acpas world does it makes sense for the mainline to fly rjs.By the way RJ stands for regional jet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kal Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Seems be be a litany of intractable intransigence. Seems Farley is none too impressed. "Before leaving court, Farley said to Jones: "We have two very different sources of information here and mine seems to be independent." That's about as close as you'll here a judge tell some one their full of sh!t without actually saying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillyBigToe Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 So, with your simple view of what RJ means, are you suggesting you will not be submitting a bid to fly 110 seat aircraft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jeanmermoz Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 So, why has he not stepped in and ruled on the matter forcing ACPA to their knees... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest YVRCREEP Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Hey Rance, Jazz pilots actually make more money flying the "barbie jet" than mainline pilots do. I just looked at the pay tables for the RJ, impossible to come up with the figures you're talking about. Check your facts before you post, otherwise you stand to look like an idiot. Creep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leftbase Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 ACPA lawyer Jones says ACPA is being asked to shoulder 31% of the cuts even though they represent 10% of the workforce. That sure SOUNDS unfair...until you remember that ACPA comprises 25% of the company payroll...with...oh yeah...10% of the workforce... Intel/schmintel... Good luck to all, and a sarcastic congrats to lawyers on both sides for getting a deathwatch started... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rance Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Yvr creep (approraite name) "impossible to come up with the figures you're talking about" what about the crews frozen on airbus pay rates.if its impossible how come i know 2 of them? Maybe you should check your facts so you don't look like an idiot. apart from the frozen pay schedules how do you figure a jazz pilot would make more?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kal Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 I guess you'll just have to ask him. Just don't stick your chin out to far when you do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicoChico Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 But ACPA lawyer Richard Jones objected to the criticism. He said Air Canada wants them to contribute 31 per cent of the savings when they represent only 22 per cent of the salary bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillyBigToe Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 There are some RJ pilots being paid more than the RJ rate (for now) but 300K is not even close. No RJ pilot is getting Airbus captain rate. Our RJ rates are very much in line with yours. And if I'm not mistaken you have a number of "grandfathered" pilots being paid more than normal rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tri-spool Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Hmmm! I think the answer is obvious! The government has stated that AC will not be allowed to fail. My guess is that there is incredible political pressure to keep the talks going, until some ammicable solution is reached. My bets are on ACPA! Pilots at AC over-whelmingly feel that SCOPE is the biggest most important issue in all of this. WHO GETS TO FLY WHAT?. No offence to the Jazz team out there, but what happened on Saturday with the Jazz announcement put ACPA and the company in a very precarious corner! It was a very, very stupid thing to do from both parties. Someone will come out of this unfortunately with some big yolk on their face. Bloody shame we can't all play in the same sandbox like we did when we were in Kindergarten. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tri-spool Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Hmmm! I think the answer is obvious! The government has stated that AC will not be allowed to fail. My guess is that there is incredible political pressure to keep the talks going, until some ammicable solution is reached. My bets are on ACPA! Pilots at AC over-whelmingly feel that SCOPE is the biggest most important issue in all of this. WHO GETS TO FLY WHAT?. No offence to the Jazz team out there, but what happened on Saturday with the Jazz announcement put ACPA and the company in a very precarious corner! It was a very, very stupid thing to do from both parties. Someone will come out of this unfortunately with some big yolk on their face. Bloody shame we can't all play in the same sandbox like we did when we were in Kindergarten. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B75/76 Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 I think AC pilots in kindergarten had their own bigger, better sandbox in which only they could play!! ;-) Just a little joke!! Really! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flytdeck Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 >>>[bloody shame we can't all play in the same sandbox like we did when we were in Kindergarten. ]<<< We've graduated to mud wrestling (a). At least we are old enough (if not MATURE enough) to drink beer between rounds (or is that have rounds between beers???)! ( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leftbase Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Sorry, one article link elsewhere quoted 25%. And of course, no backing data provided. My point was simply that ACPA represents by far the biggest chunk of payroll change, to be suprised, NAY, hurt and shocked that AC's coming after them, is pretty strange... It's got nothing to do any more what anyone THINKS they're worth...it's what the market will bear and right now it ain't much. Brinkmanship negotiating with a company in CCAA, as the lone holdout employee group, is pretty breathtakingly ballsy, or arrogant...I'm trying to decide which! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.