pictues Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 I remember the Federal Labour minister got involved in the last ACPA Negotiations and Air Canada wasn't even in CCAA. Do you think the Government will let ACPA Shut Air Canada down? ACPA may be forced with an agreement that they won't like as ACPA is the only Union holding out. Remember Collenette said "We will not let Air Canada fail". Just my 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CarryOn Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 This is just my opinion but if ACPA actually said yes to what the company wants, in a few years no one has to worry about a job. I mean really, making Jazz double the size of mainline, no guarantees on routes or aircraft, accepting a proposal that puts them back 20 years on working conditions? I know they need to do their part and they will but why lower the bar any more, West jet has done enough (yeah, slam me but it's true). On that note, Where do you west Jet pilots have to go now? Are you happy making the wages you are and flying the 737 forever? At least before there were a couple of bigger airlines to move up to, what do you have now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CarryOn Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 This is just my opinion but if ACPA actually said yes to what the company wants, in a few years no one has to worry about a job. I mean really, making Jazz double the size of mainline, no guarantees on routes or aircraft, accepting a proposal that puts them back 20 years on working conditions? I know they need to do their part and they will but why lower the bar any more, West jet has done enough (yeah, slam me but it's true). On that note, Where do you west Jet pilots have to go now? Are you happy making the wages you are and flying the 737 forever? With Zip and becoming low cost ,I doubt the profit sharing cheques will be a factor. At least before there were a couple of bigger airlines to move up to, what do you have now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TonkaJet Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 OK, I've tried to bite my tongue while all this is going on but I had to respond to your incredibly arrogant post. I would be willing to bet that not one WestJet pilot would EVER be interested in going to Air Canada. Many of us came from Jazz and we made a decision that Air Canada isn't where we wanted to be. I did the interview two and a half years ago and was even re-interviewed last summer but I decided that I was tired of jumping through hoops for a company that I didn't really want to work for. I didn't want to be an RJ FO or a cruise pilot so the decision became easy for me. For most of us, it's not about where to go next. Generally pilots that fly at westjet are there to stay and have made a choice to not pursue the next big plane that came along, rather they want to enjoy going to work every day and receive their ever increasing pay check at the end of that day....and know that they put in 110 percent that day for themselves and the company which they are proud to work for. I've seen both sides of the fence and wouldn't trade this for anything. It's funny, when you get to a company that values and respects you, all of a sudden you stop chasing airplanes and are more that happy to fly a 737 for the rest of your career. I wish you many more happy days of flying and sincerely hope that for Air canada's sake you are an exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TonkaJet Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 OK, I've tried to bite my tongue while all this is going on but I had to respond to your incredibly arrogant post. I would be willing to bet that not one WestJet pilot would EVER be interested in going to Air Canada. Many of us came from Jazz and we made a decision that Air Canada isn't where we wanted to be. I did the interview two and a half years ago and was even re-interviewed last summer but I decided that I was tired of jumping through hoops for a company that I didn't really want to work for. I didn't want to be an RJ FO or a cruise pilot so the decision became easy for me. For most of us, it's not about where to go next. Generally pilots that fly at westjet are there to stay and have made a choice to not pursue the next big plane that came along, rather they want to enjoy going to work every day and receive their ever increasing pay check at the end of that day....and know that they put in 110 percent that day for themselves and the company which they are proud to work for. I've seen both sides of the fence and wouldn't trade this for anything. It's funny, when you get to a company that values and respects you, all of a sudden you stop chasing airplanes and are more that happy to fly a 737 for the rest of your career. I wish you many more happy days of flying and sincerely hope that for Air canada's sake you are an exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pictues Posted May 29, 2003 Author Share Posted May 29, 2003 I'm not a Westjet pilot and don't even work in the industry (want to though), I know people who do though including my dad, and not saying ACPA should give everything up, but it seems the Government may intervine like they threatened to when it looked like ACPA was going on strike. I guess the negotiations are taking longer becasue the ACPA contract is the most complex of them all but as people stated below it may not be a concedence(sp?) that this judge was chosen. COuld the Government have something up their sleve? They are quiet (nothing new though). I do hope this is resolved without government intervention but may be possible if they don't come to a resolution by themselves. That is of course IMHO. I do belive that the pilots will come to a resolution, just hope it is soon and I guess we don't know just how the negots are going other then rumours (I hear a good amount of them but not all, I get most here) as none of us are in the room with them. (would like to be a fly on the wall though) PS this is My opinin and not my dad's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flightlevel Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Don't want to go anywhere else, nor does the vast majority of pilots I talk with.Love the 737 700 it has all the toys all other modern airliners have...ie..hud..rnp approaches and etops,catIII soon.. etc..etc. an airplane becomes an airplane after so many hours and personally found no thrill in changing types(15 at my last count)maybe profit sharing will stay or go,in fact the one we just got was good..not great but sure didn't notice any dip in spirit or culture at the party in the round up center Saturday, because nobody ever fully depended on it being there 4ever.As tonka said, I too came from jazz or acr, upgraded in less than two years love my wage and t4 from last year. We have fun at work nobody is bitching even in these hard times and when you have a &%$@!ty day where nothing goes right. folks like you have no idea about the atmosphere here. Lastly why would someone like to move up to Air Can. all my buddies I talk to that flowed through hate the job..love the cheque. We love both here at westjet. The best thing yet is I haven't been written up again for taking a lady in a wheel chair to her next departure gate as did some air canada agent do to me in yyz...her boss said I was taking her job..imagine. In a nutshell no I dont think I would like to 'move up' to that stuff(and there are many examples) again. thanks anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CarryOn Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 I am not a pilot and I am truly sorry that I offended you, I am glad you are happy with your career choice. I have put in 15 years as an F/A and now am facing layoff. I have been through 3 mergers and this has been the hardest. I just feel that when you accept work for a lot less than the standard you are lowering the bar. Maybe the bar was too high, maybe not. Only the future will tell. Good luck at West Jet and in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starman Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Thanks for your thoughts, CarryOn. Air Canada pilots are already the lowest compensated of all Star Alliance carriers. We want to find a solution that gives the company a cost structure to make it viable, but a wholesale gutting of our wages and working conditions is neither required nor reasonable. This industry was built by pilots, mechanics, flight attendants, and everyone on the team who have worked to give the customer the product they pay for and I, for one, do not want to see it devalued by two-bit bean counters who will give themselves a hefty bonus at the end of the year for union busting and cleverly hiding their own compensation behind the CCAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marion Vanderlubbe Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 I can understand about not leaving WestJet for Air Canada, but what do you suppose would motivate an ex-military pilot to leave WestJet and return to the CF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 He couldn't get up enough speed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jimmy Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 TonkaJet, "didn't want to be an RJ FO or Cruise Pilot". Remind me again who is being arrogant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ECB Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Good question Marion. I was talking with one such pilot just a day or so before he left for Moose Jaw. He said he loved WestJet but CF offered to top up his pension and combined with a re-signing bonus and his family situation made the offer irresistable. He also hoped one day to return. I believe he was one of two to make that move. Super guys and best of luck to them. Our loss. Also, a good post by TonkaJet. I have NEVER heard a WestJet pilot (or FA for that matter) express any desire to "move up (or down, depending on your POV) to Air Canada". AC is not bad, just different and the current mess and internal strife (over the last 5 years at least) between GX vs AC, CP vs AC etc... does not make the place any more appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rance Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Nice post tonka. Sounds like a great place to work and you can't put a price tag on piece of mind. Nice to be rid of the uncertainty that is always over your head while you were at jazz. Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dashedexpectations Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Government ministers make all sorts of assertions, like scrapping the G.S.T., scrapping the military helicopters and countless others. Often times the opposite happens, so hold on to your two "sense", you might need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SLEUTH Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Turned ya down huh? You guys are a joke. How's the 700 beans every two weeks workin for ya? I'm willing to bet that there are fewer than 10 pilots on this planet that aspire to fly the same type for their entire career. When I was 8 I sure as hell didn't look over at a 37' and say wow I'd like to fly that! Your holier than though B.S. is nauseating and I know for a FACT that 80% of Jazz drivers at WJ were rejected by AC for one reason or another. Post your name TONKA and I'll prove it to everyone. P.S. Enjoy the working conditions you have at this point in your life because mainline pilots in this country have fought hard to establish a semblance of dignity for the profession. Your arrogance fueled by luck and timing is nauseating. Sleuth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TonkaJet Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 What is it about some AC'ers that automatically assume that if you didn't go to Air Canada then you were turned down? We all make certain choices and I can't say that deciding to come to WJ over Air Canada was an easy one. It came down to a personal choice that I'm sure that many people thought was a crazy one. In responding to the original post my intention was to show that we don't aspire to move on to better things when everything is going along perfectly well. I wish I could say that I had the forethought that Air Canada would be in the position it's in but unfortunately all I can say is "luck and timing" helped me out a bit. I wouldn't be arrogant enough to say that I had any insight that the industry would be where it is right now. All I can say now is that even making the "700 beans" every two weeks I've never had more job satisfaction than I do now. I really wish you the same. P.S. Without luck and timing where would any of us be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob Assaf Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 (gently) I don't want to be a long haul pilot, I don't think that making that statement makes me arrogant though. I think he was just stating a preference? over, Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B75/76 Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Wow! More of that AC pilot superiority that 'the best and the brightest' have become famous for. Get off your high horse. Not every pilot desperately wants to work for AC. In fact some people put other aspects of their lives ahead of career. You know, family, where one lives etc. I certainly know a good number of drivers that made conscious decisions to not go to to AC, including turning down job offers. The same can be said for those that have left WJ. It isn't a statement of one being better than the other, just personal preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tri-spool Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 I'll tell you why he returned to the CF. Cause the CF pays a decent salary. If he was just a 5 year captain, he would have 5 weeks vacation + 16 days of stat holidays + flying pay (about $4000/year) + a hefty salary of $87,000/year. If he was a mid-level Major add another $10,000/year on top of that. In addition, the CF would pay for his entire move, including real-estate fees, lawyers fees, house-hunting trip, up to 42 days of hotel and meal accomodations and the list goes on. Would WestJet do that.. or for that matter Air Canada? Seems like he made a wise decision. Plus to top it all off, he could top of his pension. Going to 27 years would mean a 54% of best years earnings.. translating to about $50K/year. When you add that to a Westjet salary then your talking decent money. This pilot was not stupid.. just financially aware. I'd like to meet him! Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CJ Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Your arrogance is a joke. It would be just like you to surmise that anyone not flying for mainline AC isn't good enoughn or were turned down. You are nauseating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marion Vanderlubbe Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 But Clive testified that his captains were making an average of $170,000... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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