Guest q650 Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 What is the current Jazz scope line? # jets etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.70 mach Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 The following provisions apply and remain in effect for so long as Air Canada Regional Inc. is a majority owned subsidiary of Air Canada or is under the control of Air Canada or if ACR is bound by an exclusive code sharing agreement with Air Canada: a) All turboprop flying operated with the AC Code with aircraft of a maximum certified seating capacity of twenty (20) to eighty (80) seats inclusive will be performed solely by Pilots listed on the Air Canada Regional Inc. seniority list, with the exception of Government imposed obligations. All turbojet flying operated with the AC Code with aircraft of a maximum certified seating capacity of twenty (20) to fifty-five (55) seats inclusive will be performed solely by Pilots listed on the Air Canada Regional Inc. seniority list, with the exception of Government imposed obligations. In the application of this provision the F28 shall be considered to be a fifty-five (55) seat aircraft. .01 Notwithstanding above, Air Canada mainline may continue to operate up to twenty-five (25) CRJ 100/200 aircraft. .02 Notwithstanding a) above, the AC Code Share operations of Calm Air in the intra-Manitoba market place shall be permitted. .03 Air Canada Regional may continue to operate up to ten (10) BAe 146 100/200 aircraft. .04 Air Canada Regional may continue to operate F28 aircraft. .05 In no case will Air Canada Regional code share with an airline that restricts Air Canada Regional from the ability to: a) operate up to 39 Jet Aircraft, as limited by c) below. operate an unlimited number of Turbo prop aircraft, as limited by c) below. c) operate up to 12 ASM’s for every 100 ASM’s flown by Air Canada. Upon request, the Company will provide the Association with copies of any contracts or commercial agreements entered into by the Company that relate to Code Sharing or flying operations, subject to a proper confidentiality undertaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.70 mach Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 : a) All turboprop flying operated with the AC Code with aircraft of a maximum certified seating capacity of twenty (20) to eighty (80) seats inclusive will be performed solely by Pilots listed on the Air Canada Regional Inc. seniority list, with the exception of Government imposed obligations. All turbojet flying operated with the AC Code with aircraft of a maximum certified seating capacity of twenty (20) to fifty-five (55) seats inclusive will be performed solely by Pilots listed on the Air Canada Regional Inc. seniority list, with the exception of Government imposed obligations. In the application of this provision the F28 shall be considered to be a fifty-five (55) seat aircraft. .01 Notwithstanding above, Air Canada mainline may continue to operate up to twenty-five (25) CRJ 100/200 aircraft. .03 Air Canada Regional may continue to operate up to ten (10) BAe 146 100/200 aircraft. .05 In no case will Air Canada Regional code share with an airline that restricts Air Canada Regional from the ability to: a) operate up to 39 Jet Aircraft, as limited by c) below. operate an unlimited number of Turbo prop aircraft, as limited by c) below. c) operate up to 12 ASM’s for every 100 ASM’s flown by Air Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ACsidestick Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ACsidestick Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Unless of course, JR signed a contract which conflicts with ACPA's contract, which was signed first. In such case you are SOL. Scopeing ACPA, that's funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Mr. Sidestick, I hope you are involved at the highest levels of ACPA. Jazz pilot John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rollingrock Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 ACsidestick, you are the exact reason why people will enjoy watching you and the the rest of acpa in the ei line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bcpilot Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 What exactly is so funny about scoping ACPA? Do you think that ACPA pilots are the only ones that should have some kind of job security? Another perfect example of the superiority complex that some (not all!) ACPA pilots have. You must be one of the "chosen few" that are allowed to operate jets!! That kind of attitude will ensure that AC never prospers. Why would a mainline pilot want to fly an RJ? It is a regional aircraft that was designed to operate in regional markets. Must really irk you that "Jazz" pilots get to fly some of "your" jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ACsidestick Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Not for one moment did i say that you should not have RJ's. It IS ACPA's contract that gave them to you. Joe Randell couldn't organize a gang bang in a whorehouse with a fist full of credit cards. If your moronic leader signed off on a contract item that he had no ability nor authority to sign on and if you are patting yourself on the back, you are as moronic as him. As to the EI line, I'm the guy that votes on any issue about allowing the whimsical fantasies from your junior members wish list, ie BOTL. Nothing has changed from 8 years ago. You will see out of this that NOT ONE AC pilot will be laid off. What you will see is RJ's and -8's being flown at the regional level for regional wages. When your new owner takes over, he'll be asking for alot more back than just your $800.00 headsets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ABC Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Mr. Sidestick, It is not even noon. Have you been drinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest qtip Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Well said John.Miss the gang in YVR. J.Q. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.70 mach Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 The realms of reality of contracts are, we can expand the CRJ 100/200 fleet up to 39 providing we fall into the 12 /100 ASM's flown by you guys. And your 50 seat CRJ 100's will remain for now at 25. We can not circumvent your scope clause to operate anything larger and you guys can not go out and lease another 25 CRJ 100/200's. Those are the facts going into this restructuring. CCAA is an interesting entity in it's own, where we will go into unchartered ground.I have always pushed for ACPA and ALPA (Jazz) to go into meaningful talks for the betterment of the company but ghosts of the past never seem to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest floatrr Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 ACsidestick, I know many AC employees. I know that you may represent a small portion of the AC employee group that feels like it is better than everyone else. Whatever! Calling someone a moron and making foolish assumptions as to who will be laid off from what property (although hundreds have already been laid off at Jazz) is only weak speculation on your part. The hammer will inevitably fall in some direction, maybe even yours. It's time to suck it up and remember all of those maturity talks your parents gave you and start taking the high road. No one really cares about speculation, they want facts. AC is going bankrupt. AC will restructure under credit protection. AC must do what makes the most sense in todays turbulent airline industry. Some employees will get hurt. Some management will get hurt. The survival of the company is paramount. Those are all facts. All the best. Really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Philip Aubin Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Just to bring clarity to the number of jet aircraft allowed at Jazz . . . . Its a bit complicated but basically, under the current Scope language, having 71 widbody jets and another 143 widebody or narrowbody jets at the mainline allows 39 small jets (0-55 seats) at the connectors. However, it is a sliding scale. The number of small jets allowed at the connectors increases/decreases by one for a mainline increase/decrease of: 1.5 wide body jets (220+ passengers) 3 narrow body jets (91-221 passengers) 6 medium jets (56-90 passengers) Thus, if AC decreased the Narrow body fleet by 24 aircraft below the baseline, Jazz would then be limited to 39 - 24/3 = 31 small jet aircraft. If these were then replaced by 24 Medium Jet aircraft such as RJ90's, then the number of Jazz small jets would be limited to 39 - 24/3 + 24/6 = 35. Philip M. Aubin AC pilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Labtec Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 The 737-200 is also a regional jet and operates in a regional market. Don't let the marketing name of the CL65 fool you into a sense of entitlement. Everyone is hurting right now and pouring salt into the wound is simply going to entrench ACPA's committment not to work with you folks. If you were genuinely concerned about the industry as you always seem to suggest you wouldn't be saying the things you are saying. It's all about you it has been in the past and it will be in the future. ACPA is not the root of all evil simply because they don't put your interests first. We pay them to put ours first. Labtec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Labtec Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Bombardier and Embraer are both developing 90 seat aircraft. The DC9 was a regional jet. Its not the aircraft its the mission. typically point to point under 800 miles. What's the big deal? JAZZ is largely a turbo-prop airline serving destinations with their turbo-props in the vicinity of 400 miles or less. You guys have a few jets but if one were to characterize your operation its largely a prop outfit. So what. Labtec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest qtip Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Your formula is "history" or haven't you seen the news yet? CCAA is runing the show now my friend and they and the company will fortunately decide where each airframe goes.ACPA&ALPA don't have any say anymore.We've blown it!!Now go back to flying your airplane and let the powers at be fix the problem.After all,you went to flight school to be a pilot.Didn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest qtip Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 My guess of your years of service would have to be at the most 3 to 5 years and my friend the CCAA and the company will decide where each airframe goes in the near future.So be very careful. You could be working for a "prop outfit" if at all in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Labtec Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 I don't mind flying props I started on the things like everyone on this forum. However, if I have to do it for slave wages I can assure you I will be pulling the ejection handles and moving on to greener pastures. I hope you have another skill because my guess is that like me you will undoubtedly need it. Labtec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Labtec Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 You have been misinformed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skirt Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Qtip, The scope clauses are not history neither is the rest of our contract. Unlike in the US with chapt11 our contracts are still valid. whether it remains the same is up to ACPA and others involve in the CCAA. Sorry dude! I have many friends at Jazz from the Airforce and I feel for all of you. Only time will tell what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skirt Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Qtip, The scope clauses are not history neither is the rest of our contract. Unlike in the US with chapt11 our contracts are still valid. whether it remains the same is up to ACPA and others involve in the CCAA. Sorry dude! I have many friends at Jazz from the Airforce and I feel for all of you. Only time will tell what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.70 mach Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 I knew there was some kind of formula attached to us operating jets here at Jazz. My question is are the airframes flown by Zip included as well even though it is a seperate subsiduary? For us it's kind of a mute point since we only operate the 10 CRJ's and the 10 146's. But you never know . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest qtip Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Skirt, You're absolutely right.But do you actually think that those involved in the CCAA process and the company would agree to the type of scope that is in place now going forward.After all,it's about the new Air C anada now.The "old model" is broken!! You're absolutely right.Time will tell. Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Philip Aubin Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 The connector jet ratio under the current Scope language is only with respect to the AC mainline fleet (ie. not ZIP aicraft). Philip Aubin AC Pilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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