Mitch Cronin Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Good morning Rattler.... I wanted to talk to you about your "satan" reference in another thread... I may be wrong, but it appears to me that you've assumed that's how I think of our southern neighbor... In case that's an accurate guess, I feel it necessary to correct that perception. If you look through what I've said, I'm certain you'll find that for you to have come to that conclusion you must have made some assumptions. And I'm here now to tell you those assumptions are incorrect. I know perfectly well that there is MUCH good that has come from the USA. Collectively, the American people are not so different from we Canadians at all. I've met met Americans I thought were wonderful people. ...and I've met a few who I was glad I wouldn't have to see again. Not unlike people from any other area of the globe, I'm sure.... Do you not see that it is possible to believe their various government agencies (especially the CIA) may be capable of, and indeed is responsible for, some horrendous behaviour (they do, after all, operate essentially in a vacuum that the average American will NEVER be aware of), while at the same time considering the nation in general, and her people, as friendly neighbors? I think your "satan" crack was an un-called-for misrepresentation of my comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cargo Agent Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Mitch, for review here are your comments that brought this on. "Our dear friend, the US of A, is the single largest global terrorist organization there is." You went on to clarify here: "As an institution, yes. Not her people. The American people are, like us, for the most part, either completely ignorant of that fact, or they know it and are opposed to it. So far that's had little effect on the reality if it though." Now we read: "I know perfectly well that there is MUCH good that has come from the USA" and "Do you not see that it is possible to believe their various government agencies (especially the CIA) may be capable of, and indeed is responsible for, some horrendous behaviour (they do, after all, operate essentially in a vacuum that the average American will NEVER be aware of)" So is it only various gov't agencies that your "largest global terrorist organization" applies to? This was the part I had a problem with Mitch. Originally you painted an entire nation with that one sweeping brush, granted you did clarify a little but you still basically included anyone that had anything to do with the gov't. Do you not see how some of us could read your comments and not wonder if you believe the US actually is the "Great Satan"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Good morning Rattler.... I wanted to talk to you about your "satan" reference in another thread... I may be wrong, but it appears to me that you've assumed that's how I think of our southern neighbor... In case that's an accurate guess, I feel it necessary to correct that perception. If you look through what I've said, I'm certain you'll find that for you to have come to that conclusion you must have made some assumptions. And I'm here now to tell you those assumptions are incorrect. I know perfectly well that there is MUCH good that has come from the USA. Collectively, the American people are not so different from we Canadians at all. I've met met Americans I thought were wonderful people. ...and I've met a few who I was glad I wouldn't have to see again. Not unlike people from any other area of the globe, I'm sure.... Do you not see that it is possible to believe their various government agencies (especially the CIA) may be capable of, and indeed is responsible for, some horrendous behaviour (they do, after all, operate essentially in a vacuum that the average American will NEVER be aware of), while at the same time considering the nation in general, and her people, as friendly neighbors? I think your "satan" crack was an un-called-for misrepresentation of my comments. Mitch, not aimed at you in particular, if that was my intent, I would have placed a comment in a specific thread and not just in one about an earthquake. The propaganda term "Great Satan" is used by a large number of people world wide when talking about the US. I used it to highlight the fact the the US has a "good" side that those who are against them refuse to acknowledge. As far as your POV, I don't agree with everything you said in other threads about the US but there is no doubt that the US does have a "dark" side. But of course that is and has been part and parcel of any nation that throughout history became a world leader/empire. On balance I believe the USA has done more good than harm in general. Cargo Agent does not of course talk for me. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted January 13, 2010 Author Share Posted January 13, 2010 Thanks Rattler.... for a minute there I thought we had a major misunderstanding goin' on.... Glad to know that ain't so. Cheers mate, Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted January 13, 2010 Author Share Posted January 13, 2010 Cargo Agent.... Yep. When you sum it up like that I can see it. But to see it like that, I have to be sure NOT to give the writer the benefit of any doubt. The initial statement was a little ambiguous. Sure. Allow me to correct that: Various US government agents, most notably the CIA, but they're certainly not operating without an upper chain of command, ... and various people in said chain of command, over the years, have been responsible for more terrorism - according to their own definition of "terrorism" [man, I wish you'd look at that video!] - than any other organized group of terrorists. Seems to me, to choose to believe that I meant ALL of America, is to assume I'm an ass. I'm sorry if that's what I've made you think of me. Like Popeye, Iyam what Iyam. I'm not hiding anything. You don't generally need to "read into" anything I say. I've said it. If there was something else in my mind, I would have said that. I try, sometimes, to hold my tongue, at least a bit, but I'm not very good at that. Like my "signature" says, This is me, is that you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cargo Agent Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Mitch, not aimed at you in particular, if that was my intent, I would have placed a comment in a specific thread and not just in one about an earthquake. The propaganda term "Great Satan" is used by a large number of people world wide when talking about the US. I used it to highlight the fact the the US has a "good" side that those who are against them refuse to acknowledge. As far as your POV, I don't agree with everything you said in other threads about the US but there is no doubt that the US does have a "dark" side. But of course that is and has been part and parcel of any nation that throughout history became a world leader/empire. On balance I believe the USA has done more good than harm in general. Cargo Agent does not of course talk for me. Cheers Sorry rattler, I did not clarify that I was not speaking for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Sorry rattler, I did not clarify that I was not speaking for you. Probably didn't need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cargo Agent Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Cargo Agent.... Yep. When you sum it up like that I can see it. But to see it like that, I have to be sure NOT to give the writer the benefit of any doubt. The initial statement was a little ambiguous. Sure. Allow me to correct that: Various US government agents, most notably the CIA, but they're certainly not operating without an upper chain of command, ... and various people in said chain of command, over the years, have been responsible for more terrorism - according to their own definition of "terrorism" [man, I wish you'd look at that video!] - than any other organized group of terrorists. Seems to me, to choose to believe that I meant ALL of America, is to assume I'm an ass. I'm sorry if that's what I've made you think of me. Like Popeye, Iyam what Iyam. I'm not hiding anything. You don't generally need to "read into" anything I say. I've said it. If there was something else in my mind, I would have said that. I try, sometimes, to hold my tongue, at least a bit, but I'm not very good at that. Like my "signature" says, This is me, is that you? Mitch, I've watched the damn video okay! I watched it quite a while ago. Just because my views are far to the right of yours does not mean that I ignore anything that does not equal my views. When you say they are the largest terrorist organization in the world it looks to me like your talking about a large chunk, not a bunch of much smaller agencies within that gov't. I get that there are parts of the US gov't that have done some pretty horrendous things. I also get that there are other parts that have done some wonderful things. That is one item that is usually missing from your message. You posted a whole list of bold red type "attrocities", each line a further indictment of the evil nature of the US. Where is the context? What was going on in each of those regions at the time, what was going on in the world at the time? No mention of the Cold War, no mention of terrorist threats to the west, all simply ignored in an effort to defend your view of the way the US gov't has operated for the last 60 years. How many billions of dollars has the US gov't sent as aid to countries around the world in the last 60 years? Does the good outweigh the bad? Does the bad outweigh the good? Certainly not. But you should look at the whole picture IMO before making statements like "world's largest terrorist organization". The world is not a black and white place, there are all kinds of grey areas filled with people that do some pretty nasty things. If you care to look you'll find the US is not alone in getting it's hands dirty to further the aims of the governing administration. Russia, China, India, Pakistan, Israel, Egypt, Indonesia, Columbia, Libya, the old Soviet Union, North Korea, Britain, France, Sri Lanka, and Argentina are just some that have blood on their hands. Living as we do in the shadow of the US perhaps it makes it more difficult to see that? I think your an idealist and a liberal (the attitude not the party) much more than an ass. As for me, realist and conservative and most certainly an ass at times. But I'm okay with that. I do not suffer fools gladly and that tends to cause some irritation with folk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hadji Ramjet Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 The world would be a much better place had the Soviets taken over: then the CIA would never have been able to invent and distribute the AIDs virus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted January 13, 2010 Author Share Posted January 13, 2010 Where is the context? Hi Cargo Agent, Well, first, the context for my inclusion of all that red text was an attempt to show grounds for my statement, which had clearly been challenged. And the context of my initial statement was, how unbelievable the notion of "a war on terror" is, to my mind. Now, the context you actually inquired about.... I suppose I didn't feel the need to provide any. After all, we're all aware of their good side, but we're not all aware of their "dark" side. I wanted to put context to the Conservatives claim to be "strengthening our contributions to global security" by waging war in Afghanistan. It's an outrageous claim, and I can't believe anyone swallows it! I suppose that's it, the context that America, and we too, is/are engaged in "a war on terror". That's pure BS. You can't stop people from hating you by trying to kill them all! This is just nuts. It's all a self sustaining argument that real people pay for with their lives. They trained and funded Bin-Laden for pitty sakes. His crowd, now dubbed Al Qaida, worked for the CIA (and the Pakistani equivalent) up until weeks before 911. The Mujahadeen, now dubbed Taliban were all trained and supplied courtesy of the USA... You think there might be some reasons these folks have to be mighty upset with "the west"? Look what's been going on over there. With American weapons, American money, American bombs, but their blood. Do you think there would be any such thing as this brand of "terrorism" against the west if "the west" (obviously I mean the US "agents" we've been talking about) hadn't done all those rotten things to them? I'm not buying it. When you look at everything that's happened since 911, and when you look at who has profited because of all of it, and their past history, and the lies they were caught telling, and the ridiculous state of fear they continue to encourage, and the insane changes they've made in law... I'm certain there's an intelligence driving it all, just as it's gone. This insane "terror" that's strangled North America for almost a decade now is nothing like a reasoned, rational response. We need to look at who is rubbing their hands with glee... and you can bet it's not Afghans or Iraqis. The great military industrial complex to the south of us.... Hmmmmm? Maybe we should look there for the real terrorists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Since this has turned into a debate betwen "CargoAgent" and Mitch, perhaps we can get the moderator to change the title..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Cronin Posted January 13, 2010 Author Share Posted January 13, 2010 No way. This is your punishment for getting out of bed this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 No way. This is your punishment for getting out of bed this morning. At my age waking up in the morning is enough of a punishment let alone getting out of bed. However I do look forward to be able to continue waking up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cargo Agent Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Since this has turned into a debate betwen "CargoAgent" and Mitch, perhaps we can get the moderator to change the title..... Rattler, No need, I am not going to change his mind and he isn't going to change mine. I'm not going to waste anymore bandwidth on it. Mitch, have a good evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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