Guest Starman Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Productivity research re: CDN / AC In 1999, Canadian Airlines flew 25340000000 available seat miles with approx. 1250 pilots. Air Canada flew 36438000000 available seat miles in the same year with approx. 2200 pilots. CDN pilots averaged 20272000 ASM's AC pilots averaged 16560000 ASM's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homerun Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Thanks. However in order for those numbers to mean anything we need to know the average stage length, and the average number of seats per aircraft. Otherwise it's an apples to oranges comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starman Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 I don't see why... The number of pilots divided into the available seat miles should be the definitive measure of pilot productivity. After all, that's what pilots provide - available seat miles (ie: the product). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sustainable Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Pilots/ASM is getting more accurate but the best measure would be the RPM/$1000 of employee cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starman Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Under that criteria the CDN guys would come out even farther ahead, because the compensation at CDN was lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flex Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 So this merger brought you big pay and pension increase, you kept the same relative position and you are still not happy with the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sustainable Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 I know... lightyears, but really, we established that the Mitchnik debacle was flawed because he equated the percieved financial strength of the company (which turned out to be a bunch of BS) with job equity. We burnt that chicken, can't we let it go. Let's look forward to facing the challenges this company is facing. Solving those problems is going to take all of our collective intellect and perseverence and will make the CCAA process look like child's play. Sus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sustainable Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 It isn't about the pay, but since you're in the mood, maybe you can mail me a copy of the receipt you got for supplementing my paycheque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homerun Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 ASM= 1 aircraft seat 1 mile. If I fly 1000 hours per year and you fly 1000 hours per year but my a/c has 200 seats and yours has 100 seats, what does the asm's per pilot tell you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starman Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 It tells me that you are a more productive pilot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homerun Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Yes, but we are trying to compare the productivity of the 2 pilot contracts. The number of seats on an aircraft is not determined by the contract. What we need is total block hours for the fleet divided by the number of pilots to be able to compare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starman Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 The pilot cost increases with the number of seats as does the absolute productivity. But I'd be interested in a comparison of total block hours divided by number of pilots also. I'm not sure where I'd find the total block hour figure, though. And I can tell you for a fact that having flown under both contracts, my annual logged hours have decreased under AC. I don't know any CDN guys for whom the opposite has happened... There is one other factor that weighs in on the AC side as well. CDN had a three pilot aircraft in the fleet at the time of the merger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homerun Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Is your lower hours due to the contract or due to the slow down. In 2000 we were flying 85 hours and now we are flying 70-72. At CAI I believe you had credit for training ( 20 hours/year, 4 sims and ART ). That equates to 26 extra pilots required. Block protecton with no reassignment also requires more people. AC contract requires 7% reserve, was CAI less than that? If you have the 99 annual report for CAI it should have the average daily aircraft utilization. From that you can multiply by the fleet numbers to get the hours flown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starman Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 My hours are lower due to the contract and the reduced hours. CDN blocked training like any other pairing (easier to organize your life, but I agree that it is less productive). We had far fewer displacements for LITC's. I'd have to look up the reserve percentage, but I know it was reduced during one of the concessionary agreements negotiated during the 90's. I'll see if I can find the averge daily utilization somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marion Vanderlubbe Posted June 15, 2003 Share Posted June 15, 2003 Okay Homerun, try this, data gleaned from various sources (mostly company-supplied): 747 pilot monthly (forecast) average hours: 99-01/EAB33: AC 38, Cdn 48; 99-02/EAB34: AC 40, Cdn 56; 00-02: AC 21, Cdn 31. DC10/A340:99-01/33: AC 47, Cdn 49; 99-02/34: AC 42, Cdn 46. 767: 99-01/33: AC 46, Cdn 57; 99-02/34: AC 45, Cdn 55; 00-02: AC 44, Cdn 46. A320: 99-01/33: AC 50, Cdn 52; 99-02/34: AC 51, Cdn 52. In every case the Cdn pilots were putting in more hours than the AC pilots. Unsurprisingly, but maybe unrelated, the Cdn pilots' utilization decreased in every case upon changing to AC's work rules. so, if they put in more time, and flew more ASMs, what other measures do you need to look at to see who's more productive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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