Guest Bulkwheat Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Much has been posted recently and of course understandably about ACPA and their devilish ways.. Why are they holding out..? Why are they screwing the Company..? Why are they screwing their fellow employees..? If I may...let me offer a simple response. They are holding out because ACPA represents ALL AIR CANADA MAINLINE PILOTS....senior and junior. Unlike CUPE (2000 junior jobs gone, but great early retirement packages for the old girls/guys)....Unlike ALPA...I've personally been there, seen that...sold down the .."blue river" Scope affects everyone. It has been affecting JAZZ pilots without question for a long time. In 2003, under our current conditions, scope affects ACPA's junior group. Scope has allowed for many 100's of pilots that fill the positions on the junior AC equipment to potentially face layoffs. This whole situation, as I'm sure most would agree, is a terrible mess. One thing I can say for sure though, and make no mistake about it is that.... The resolve of the Air Canada Pilot group is incredible. I have never seen such support within a group, let alone for the ACPA MEC and negots committee, as I have seen within the last few days from their members (me included). I can whole heartedly state after talking with other ACPA pilots and visiting the ACPA Forum, that ACPA has HUGE support. From the ...converted...cheers.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest theman Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Ben oui c'est ça. Appui ACPA et tu seras sur le chômage dans 1 mois. Gang de bébé. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Labtec Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 What amazes me is that most of the people here are working stiffs. Nearly everyone here is probably no more than a few paychecks from the street. Yet, when a group of people are fighting for their professional work lives the vast majority of you jump all over them like the pilots somehow caused this mess. Let me share a little secret with you. It was Milton and Rovinescu. Milton earned over 1 million dollars last year and CR about 650K. In 1997 we owned over 50% of our fleet with Milton at the helm we own 4%. Any profit we made was simply made in the past by selling the furniture. Now these same guys that have sunk the ship want to reduce pensions, rollback wages, and compromise safety in the air and force all of us to pay the price for their errors. You guys are mad at ACPA? You should be mad at the guy that put you here in the first place. Labtec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ACPTL2 Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Where is the ACPA forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Sowsun Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 You must be an Air Canada Pilot, and you must register first. http://pub15.ezboard.com/baircanadapilotsprivateforum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rance Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 "milton earned over 1 million dollars last year" One of the lowest paid ceos in Canada.Definately one of the lowest paid in the airline industry if you look at what his peers are making.Even clive was in the top 50 ceo salaries of canada...where was milton astonishing salary on that list?? "These same guys have sunk this ship" "you should be mad at the guys who put us here in the first place" You can't blame management for everything as acpa must also except some responsibility for this mess. Acpa dictates how this company is managed,who it will hire and what planes get flown by whom, regardless of economics.Then when it blows up in your face, and the rest of the companies, you simply blame the ceo. What a joke. Acpa also did there best to get us where we are and now rather than admit they've made some mistakes are still unwilling to compromise. Time to stop this blame game of management and realise the way things have been done in the past did and do not work.Either we change with the times or go on U.I.Unfortunatly i'm afraid it will be the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest in_the_sky Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Yes ACPA was resposible for negotiating the pay increse for CUPE weeks before this mess. Yes ACPA Declared war on IRAQ Yes ACPA is resposible for SARS Yes ACPA is responsible for for all the other unions agreeing to lay off 1000's of employees Yes it's ACPA's fault that the company continues to misslead everyone with thier BS. (yes I know they are broke) How is it that 3 months ago Milton can say ACPA pilots are among the lowest paid in the Star Alliance and he was accepting praise that he has created what everyone was to believe one of the most sucessful airlines in North America? Must be ACPA's fault. Rance you make me puke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Labtec Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 It must be nice being an apologist for the rich and irresponsible. Blaming ACPA or CUPE is like the Captain blaming the flight attendant in the aft galley for a bad landing. Leaders lead and they have to accept responsibility for their decisions. You make ACPA sound like some omnipotent entity. I work at AC and they are anything but. We get slammed by this incredulous management group day after day like everybody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickle Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Is it really worth all the finger pointing right now. I think that it is fair to say that all groups made some significant mistakes along the way. When AC purchased CP the AC management thought that the world was theirs. Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead. The economy was relatively strong with no indication of it slowing down anytime soon. The unions were able to extract from AC what they felt were reasonable. In the economic environment at the time, both sides probably felt good about what they had accomplished. Fast forward to May 2003 and we find ourselves in a very tenuous situation. Management has elected to pit ALPA against ACPA and a great many posters here are playing into that hand. There is lots of talk of allowing ZIP and Jazz to continue on like nothing has happened and let mainline slid into oblivion. No matter which way to slice this thing, everything is still owned by AC Inc. There is going to be much pain. At the end of all this, one thing is certain. The executive suite at HQ needs a complete cleaning from RM right down through the upteen VP levels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rance Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 You didn't address any of the points made to your post. Wasn't blaming Acpa, but you must admit that management isn't exactly free to do what they think is the best way to run the company.They are dictated to by acpa and are threatned of strikes or liquidation if they don't do what acpa thinks is right. Not stirring, but trying to point out both sides if we are truly to understand how things got this bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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