Bookkeepers Nightmare ?

[Kip Powick]

All Air Canada pilots belong to ACPA and as such , pay Union dues

ACPA has a Merger Committee that is fighting for the rights of the OAC pilots

ACPA must also have some spending costs associated with Merger committee business

The OCP pilots are funding their own battle with a pay assignment to their Merger Committee.

When the ACPA Merger Committee loses a court decision and the opposition is awarded “costs” , those expenses must come out of the Union coffers as well…or is there a separate fund that ONLY OAC pilots finance.

Did the money for the TP list and the associated costs, all come from OAC pilots only?..I would assume it would have to..yes??

I would assume that the bean counters in ACPA sort out the funds so that OCP pilots are not paying dues to fight themselves in court and their dues are not being utilized by the OAC Merger Committee to pay the OAC lawyers etc.

Is there a mechanism in place that allows for the OCP group to do a deep check of the ACPA “books” to ensure they are not “paying to fight themselves”? ( Not stirring here but was wondering if the average pilot, be he Red or Blue, has the right to request an audit of ACPA's finances for whatever reason)

Just curious, as it is a bit of a quandary when you consider that all ACPA pilots pay (normal Union dues), into the same pot. With the two camps, it must be a bookkeepers nightmare…

[Guest ACSideStick]

Kip, don't forget that when all this started, The ACPA lent $300,000 dollars to the OCP to pay their lawyers so that they could fight us in court.

At the time, it struck me a bit like handing over massive amounts of money so that your soon to be ex-wife could hire a better lawyer than you could afford, and you wind up taking yourself to the cleaners.

[Kip Powick]

The ACPA lent $300,000 dollars to the OCP to pay their lawyers

Did the OCP group pay it back...cause I don't know.

[Guest ACSideStick]

I believe it was a pretty short term loan and was repaid. In regards to audits, I think they are yearly and are available to whom ever can stay awake reading through it.

[Guest ACSideStick]

BTW Kip, going to Belize in May, any dive suggestions, companies?

[Kip Powick]

Ok...as you have not answered my question specifically about the finances then I would assume that ACPA has a separate pay assignment,(assessment), from the OAC troops that is used ONLY for OAC merger business...would that be correct?

Initially one would think that as OAC outnumbers OCP close to 2.4:1 then the OCP assessment would be over twice the assessment, (roughly) than what the OAC group has to pay.

It gets more convoluted when we add the new hires.... Do they pay any assessment and if they do...why??

There are probably a lot of varibles at play but if the related legal costs for each merger committe are basically the same then, (excluding losses in court), the rough estimate of funds expended over the almost six years is around $10, 000,000.00.

However.....I just think it would be really an eye opener if both camps opened their books and showed what they had spent to get to this point and I bet the only ones laughing are the lawyers. I'm sure no matter which way the cookie crumbles, the lawyers are pressing each side to take the other side "to the mat."

Makes one wonder just how many years this can go on...and at what expense?

And finally...no matter what the FINAL outcome is, not everyone will be happy, (except the lawyers)...what a pity.

[bluemic]

don't forget that when all this started, The ACPA lent $300,000 dollars to the OCP to pay their lawyers so that they could fight us in court.

At the time, it struck me a bit like handing over massive amounts of money so that your soon to be ex-wife could hire a better lawyer than you could afford, and you wind up taking yourself to the cleaners.

Now - I'm not in the loop about this particular event. (In fact, many would say that I'm not in the loop about ANYTHING!)

But I do believe that "booya" addresses this very issue over on the "Judicial Review on Tap" thread.

Booya says:

As for Acpa subsidizing the Ocp's, here's your recognition if you'd care to hear the whole story. After ACPA won the ACPA/ ALPA representation vote, ACPA unilaterally,with no consultation with ALPA, instructed the Company to discontinue the merger assessment from the OCP pilots. This was at the beginning stages of the reconsideration process that this occured. Alpa complained to Acpa and the Company but to no avail. Alpa then approached the Board for help. Acpa was told very clearly by the Board to reinstate the merger assessment or face a Board order to do the same. The Company could not immediately reprogram the payroll computers and the whole process from beginning to end was around 3 months.

Acpa, rather than face Board sanction for their illegal activity, offered to cover Alpa's accumulated debt for the time period that Acpa had turned off the merger assessment for the Ocp pilots. This debt was completely repayed within a few months. That's the only time ACpa has had to cover Alpa's deficit, a deficit created by ACPA.

mic

[Kip Powick]

BTW Kip, going to Belize in May, any dive suggestions, companies?

Not really. I have talked to a lot of divers that have "gone under" in the Belize area and they all enjoyed it but it is more expensive than many areas.

The "blue Hole" is apparently quite a dive.

Do a Google search entitled "diving in Belize " and you will find a lot of companies but my advice would be to NOT make any reservations over the Internet. There are a lot of companies that will set up diving for you, near or at your resort but you will pay "full-shot" for the set-up. It is much more economical to go to a dive shop and negotiate a price, and as usual, it will be cheaper the more dives you do.

I think I can contact a friend who has been there and give you better information in a day or two...when do you leave ??? and where are you staying? (PM me if you like)