Guest lizard Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Hi, I have lots of questions, and was just wondering when the roadshow will be in YUL. Originally, I was told it would be tomorrow the 11th, but then I was told that the ratification vote would be held on the 11th. Can someone (i.e., Kevin J or others) confirm please? Thanks and hope to see some of you there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jzdude Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Hi They are both on the same day. Tommorow the 11th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lizard Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Boy that was fast! 13:00 and 19:00? Will, you be there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jzdude Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Ya we will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lizard Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 OK, I'll bite...who's we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jzdude Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Hey Lizard What's your take on the new "TA"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin J Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Hi Lizard, If you have any pre meeting questions, fire away. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lizard Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Hey jzdude, I have posted before that I see CRA all over again. But I also agree with Sarah and others. We cannot go back to negotiate something "better". It's a take it or leave it deal. And I can't afford to be laid off (not eligible for EI). So I gotta take it. Plus, I'm not willing to take everyone down with me if I say no. I also think that you have some great ideas, and good points to make. Were you on the committee? If not, you should have been. As for the TA, yeah, it sucks. I am calculating a 22% cut, which I think was the company's goal, and am now thinking about getting a second job to pay the mortgage I just got. I am on mat leave right now, and I betcha I see less $ when I go back to work than what I am getting on EI right now. I wonder how many other employee groups would make more on EI than at work? Hope to meet you tomorrow, if I don't already know you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jzdude Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Hey Lizard No I was never on the committe. I've got other stuff to do with my time. I'm just keeping myself and my other friends informed. You need to make your own decision and vote with your head. You are not going to "take everyone down with you" if you vote no. Some people have been trying to instill fear that our only option is to say yes but it is actually the opposite. A couple of things you need to ask yourself is 1) why are there no buyout packages available to the senior f/a's 2)what gurantees do we have in the TA that we will work the rj's? 3)why has the union not stopped collecting the enhancement fund from the company? My room mate has been called to be drafted two days in a row (he did not take the draft of course). So it seems they are operating short. Hopefully other f/a's will question the union on these and other issuses. There are no job security guarantees weather you vote yes or no for this contract. For a senior f/a who is working a full block it will mean around $500-$700 per month loss in wage. The only way to avoid being back to the CRA days of wage is to vote no and tell the company and our union that we are not going to take this lying down. jzdude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lizard Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Those are the very questions I expect to have answered tomorrow, and I thank you for bringing them to the attention of others. As for voting "no". What do you see happening if the Jazz f/a's tell the company that we're not going to take this lying down? What will the company do? What will the other unions who haven't ratified do? What will the creditors do? Does the company need us? Hell no! ACPA and Alpa will merge, all CUPE jobs will be saved. Zip will keep doing low cost. We're expendable. And yes, it sucks, but that's just the way it is! Have you not considered that the company purposely baited ACPA into major concessions, fully knowing that they would never give up scope? They used us! THAT's what I'm &%$@! off at. But I won't vote "no" just to get back at them.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jzdude Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Lizard The vote will be over by the middle of the month. Hopefully it will be a NO vote and the company and Teamsters will have to sit down and quickly make some serious changes to this "TA" Hopefully you don't think that I along with others have decided to vote no, just so we can "get back at the company". We have sat down and compared the two contracts point by point and have come to the conclusion that we are just not perpared to give up that much. We do agree though that some concessions will be made. Let the union give up their ënhancment fee and give us back some of our overnight expenses. Listen I realize that I will probablly get laid off yet again weather the vote is yes or no. But I want to be able to make my vote count in a way that alot of us belive is the right one. So if you sit down and make your comparisons to the two contracts and are still ready to make those kind of cuts then fine, we live a great country that give you the right to vote however you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peanuts Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 "Oh jazzdude, Oh jazzdude, Oh jazzdude,...you simply don't get it do you ? THIS IS NOT THE TIME TO BARGAIN !!! Wait a couple of years, unless you and anybody else who feels as pityfull as yourself want to ruin it for the more logical ones of us out here. Does "welfare" appeal to you ? Flipping burgers pays a heck of a lot less then the concessions we are taking. Now come on....stop, listen and think for awhile !!! I want my job and am a firm believer that our Teamsters representatives wanted what is best for all of us. Remember we have F/A's on that committee who DO still fly the line. Ya think they wanted to make these consessions ????? NOT, they did the best they could in todays environment. This TA reflects on them too you know! Give them a break after what they have been doing in the past little while. I am sure you are a real nice person , but you definitly need some more info. Hope you get it at the meetings, Take care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lizard Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Hi Jzdude Where did you get the impression that a "no" vote would mean that we could go back to the table? I am under the understanding that this is just not a possibility. Can you imagine, every group says "no" and we start all over again?! No, every union group was given a figure, and told to save that much money. Each union found different ways to get to those savings, but when it all comes down to it, the company is getting 22% No one group has been told, "you don't need to give up as much as the others". No union was able to convince the company that they didn't need such deep cuts from their members. Not even ACPA! But you have the right to vote however you want, and there are many others who think as you do. Just please, speak to the Teamsters before you make up your mind. Lizard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jzdude Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Peanuts Your perception of F/A's as being capable of f/a's-flip burgers or go on welfare is a real downer. You must not think very highly of your co-workers if you assume that is all we are capable of doing. Smart people would act on thier thoughts and analyses and not emotion, fear and unfounded beliefs. Just my opion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest givemeabreak Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Hey jzdude, I guess you could yell at everyone where the exits are when they leave McDonalds too if a grease fire starts. "Quickly make serious changes to the TA" Where did you come up with that paradox? Don't worry, if you vote no I'm sure there are a lot of jobs that pay as well, with the same benefits, days off, travel, etc. etc. out there for someone with a high school education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jazz1 Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Givemeabreak, Your line about being out of work if we vote "no" is alarmist and without basis. Someone coined it and a lot of you jumped on it so drop it! You don't know what will happen, no one does. It's a bad deal TEAMSTERS, vote no! Give me a break! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWB YYC Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Jazz FA I don't know where you think that we will go back to the table. If you are comparing this to CRA in 1996, that was a totally different situiation. We were not in CCAA. There are some very tight time lines and I don't think there is anytime for the union to sit down again. You are paying with a very dangerous fire that could get out of control very quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest givemeabreak Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Are you on dope?? Losing 5 mill a day? There is basis to all those statements and until you get it through your stupid f/a pea brain you will be flipping burgers. Practice this in front of a mirror, "would you like fries with that?" Jzdude why don't you answer my question, "what job out there can you find with a grade 12 education, that includes the pay and all the benefits, pension"?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jzdude Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Gimmeabreak Im sorry that YOU decided not to purse a higher degree of education. But myself and many others are not about to take these hits just because you are afraid of standing up for what you believe in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest givemeabreak Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 jzdude... answer my question! you afraid of the truth?? For the record I do have a college degree. The high school education comment was that there are 4 year degree people leaving university and they cannot find a job that is as good as a Jazz FA. Give your head a shake! Leave, quit, pleeeeeeeeaaaaaaaasssssseeeeeee!! There are tons of qualified (high school educated) people out there that would love to have your job, wages, benefits, pension, travel, etc, etc..... Go home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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