Guest wrenchpro Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 I've been reading the various "word wars" between ALPA, ACPA and non-pilots. But the thing that strikes me the most is how pilots dig up all sorts of reasons in a desperate attempt to justify their high salaries! i. they spend so much early time in out of the way places at very low pay -- and you didn't know that going into the career?!? It sure makes it gratifying to get better pay but it in no way justifies the big airline rates. Mechanics, as well as doctors and nurses, also often face this situation. ii. look at all the responsibility they have -- and nobody else has any?!? What about the person who works on the complex systems, if he/she didn't do it correctly is all your efforts going to save those 200 people? iii. the training is difficult, expensive and ongoing -- your certainly not alone in this area. I don't believe it's any more difficult than a lot of careers demand. The mechanic also has to know a large amount of information and regulations and must keep current as well. iv. you wouldn't want a low paid crew flying your airplane, would you? -- since when did paying high wages guarentee the most competent personnel? Any way you slice it big airline pilots have managed to extort large wage, benefits and perk packages in their contracts over the last number of years, as well as demanding certain flying profiles (ie the hated scope clauses). Now they see those exhorbitant gains being eroded, forgetting of course, that many times when they demanded and got large increases the other employee groups got far less. Your being asked to take too big a slice of the concessions?!?...more like your finally getting your cumuppance! Techy Type (who only makes 1/3rd of the average ACPA pay...with moocho OT!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WA777 Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 Your post is rather lacking of the facts....I think you will find most pilots think that mechanics are UNDERPAID....however if you are deterimined to keep your attitude, I'm sure they can be persuaded otherwise....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WA777 Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 Your post is rather lacking of the facts....I think you will find most pilots think that mechanics are UNDERPAID....however if you are determined to keep your attitude, I'm sure they can be persuaded otherwise....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hawkeye Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 Why are you so defensive? Wrenchpro was sharing his view point with some constuctive criticism. You certainly share your viewpoint but it seems dare not challenge it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leftbase Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 *sigh* On what level to respond to this? I suppose I could try to convince you that your arguments as to why pilots SHOULDN't be well compensated are facile and misleading. But it would seem that you have a serious axe to grind so I won't try to change your mind. However, your post reeks of two stereotypes: one, of a frustrated non-pilot who resents the wages negotiated by pilots, for pilots. And two, of that wonderful, peculiarly Canadian attitude of "if I don't make that much neither should they!". Instead of, "How can I demonstrate that my skills and experience are worth more than I am presently receiving for them?". The sad part is, most pilots are on your side, and believe, as I do, that AME's are tremendously undervalued. But please explain a couple things. First, how any employee group getting less compensation will help you receive more. And two, why you would use a term such as "comeuppance" to describe the situation. Really, it just makes it sound like you have a bad case of pilot-slash-class envy. And of course, you could always head down to your local flying club, take a couple lessons, and then make the same wages yourself... Lastly...though I work as a pilot, I certainly don't make ACPA/ALPA wages, and I'm SURE you make more than me! Feel better?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mtc. Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 Wrenchpro, the single biggest reason for the large split in pay between pilots and maintenance boils down to the fact that many years ago the pilot unions sold themselves as professionals and ours didn't...Over the years they continued to build on this and today they are who they are and get what they get.... We were always happy to be in the background doing what we did.... The IAM's and CAW's etc.etc. have no interest in selling or promoting our abilities, so don't expect any changes any time soon, even in a good business enviroment.....Maybe we can start towards making the necessary changes for the future, but at the current rates and benefits, there won't be anyone in the industry to enjoy it...... I am not bitter at the pilot groups for the $$ they make, but I do get tired of the whinning when I hear the $180K pilot complaining about some issues, but that's just me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 I have to agree with WA777, just about every pilot I have spoken with thinks that we in maintenance are not getting anywhere near the proper pay for our positions, I thank all of you in the flight deck for your support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiho Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 You know, if you really sit back and think for a while, you may come to the realisation that you have just done more -harm- to your own profession than you have done -good- to your self esteem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Jensen Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 well said...very well said.. What's happening in this country IS a race to to lowest paycheck ! Our AMEs at AC ( and at Jazz for that matter ) are the BEST at what they do... they have worked as hard for their "ticket" as we pilots have and are being dragged down by a union that likens them to people who load bags... hmmmmm... sad but true.. I have nothing but the highest regard for all AMEs. Regards, Pete Jensen BTW... anyone else wanna sign their REAL names ??? JZ perhaps ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ACguy Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 The fact of the matter is not how you define yourself as a professional, blue, or white collar worker. Look at some wages of electricians,plumbers, and heavy equipment operators in comparison. The results are found within negotiations, preformance basis, and industry standard(market value). Many of the pilot group have indeed demonstarted their management abilities by moving into such jobs within the company. In fact some have become affectionately known as "project pilots" where they spend many hours for the betterment of the company. Projects such as Total Mission Management, Fuel Policies, Advanced Qualification Program, which all have at least attempted to save money and utilize existing resources. I am not sure what sort of leadership roles AMEs have taken (mostly because I lead a life away from avaition when I can)and now that they are spun off may never know. I have the utmost confidence in all our people to do their job and trust them to do it well especially AME. The envy displayed within the posts for the unimaginable salaries is not only disturbing it displays disrespect and disdain. In the socialistic country we live in where everyone should be middle class and there should exist no lines between have and have nots sickens me. I know every pilot I have worked with is worth every penny they are paid and grow tired of selfpreservation and justification. The answer lies within yourself as to why you feel this way and the gravity of your situation lies soley upon your shoulders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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