Guest Glen Comerford Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Hello everyone, Just to start off I am sorry to hear that people are taking a hit and really sorry for those that have to look for a Job! I hope that things go well and I wish you all the best! Small comfort I know. I purposed a flow though agreement earlier hoping that people would add to it to make it workable. I see that did not happen, but I was glad to see that it was not totally cut down so we maybe able to find a deal. I am trying to start a dialog on the subject. Date of hire will be the big stumbling block for some. For those people go get a mirror and place it beside your computer before you read on. I know that almost all pilots can be trained to fly a 747 or any heavy jet or prop. I did not say everyone because we all know someone that should not be flying. LOL. Everyone in this industry knows that the job you have has as much to do with timing, luck (good and bad) and skill. So if you are a captain on the Dash or on the 767 all those things have come into play on why you are where you are. Mostly I think it is timing and having the right amount of experience in the times of expansion. The other factor is the choices that you make during the up waves and the down turns. These choices can be made for a number of good reasons. So I am not knocking anyone's ability or their choices. Date of hire will never work in a pilot merger. For those people whose blood is now boiling keep an open mind and read on. Date of hire was a great union concept to merge employees that had common jobs. I.E. Miners or factory workers that performed the same job with the same amount of pay and benefits. Now I know that we are all pilots but our jobs do not have the same pay or the same benefits. ALPA has been around for a long time, knows this already and has written their merger policy based on this fact. 5. The merger representatives shall carefully weigh all the equities inherent in their merger situation. In joint session, the merger representatives should attempt to match equities to various methods of integration until a fair and equitable agreement is reached, keeping in mind the following goals, in no particular order: a. Preserve jobs. b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other. c. Maintain or improve pre-merger pay and standard of living. d. Maintain or improve pre-merger pilot status. e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations. All of these goals are the reasons that I am trying to get people to talk about finding a workable solution for pilots of Air Canada and Jazz. They are all great reasons to find a deal. If we can find a deal we will have a foundation to be able to work a deal with tier three also and stop the slide all our careers are on. The Canadian legal system and the CIRB through the Air Canada, Canadian merger, have also looked it at DOH and found that it is a nonstarter. So we know that it will not be used in the event of a deal. Now this is what the mirror is for. I have never understood why pilots feel that date of hire is a fair policy! If I had been working for a company for 25 years was a 320 captain, we merged with a new company that had 747's I would not expect to suddenly become a 747 captain and take the job of the pilot that is there. Now look at yourself in the mirror if you believe this and explain why you would deserve it. Then type it here and tell us why! If you still believe in Date of Hire which is base on time, then the next time you are driving down the road and see someone your same age that is driving a nicer car you go over and take their car. You have been living as long as they have so you must deserve it. (Please do not do this!) Date of hire has been the major down fall of merger negotiations. When two companies merge or create a flow from one to the other you have to look to see if your future expectations and life style is maintained. If it is close then you have won. Please take another look at what I wrote below. If you do not like it purpose something that you think might work. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peanuts Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Sorry Glen, but am tired of the DOH subject. It is becoming boring. Lets talk about great sunny getaways instead, with lots of Tequila, food etc. I believe we are ALL due for one of those vacations !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Glen Comerford Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Santana Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 This is probably the most intelligent piece of writting I've seen on the subject. I sincerely hope that we as a group can find the maturity in our individual selves to come to some agreement. AC management is betting we can't hence the proposal we bid against each other on the scope. We either work together on merging a list or we'll fight like dogs for the scraps from Miltons and CR's table. As part of the newly formed 350-400 club, the latter will likely push me in search of greener pastures outside this country. I hope we're not blinded by greed. KRS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peanuts Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Sorry man, don't like people seeing people getting laid off. However, hang in there it may not be for long ! Good Luck ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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