Seeker
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Posts posted by Seeker
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7 minutes ago, Kip Powick said:
The terminal velocity would be almost exactly as a muzzle velocity of a 9mm bullet leaving a Glock 19.......1154ft/sec
The area of impact would depend on where on the sidewalk the hammer hit. Assuming the normal concrete sidewalk which is poured with expansion slots........centre...would probably star crack the entire section, .....outside edge - 1/2 star crack......open joint between two sections ..disjointed star crack in two sections..
The depth would depend on the sub strat under the concrete pour
Have a nice week...
Well done. Further calculations show the kinetic energy is almost exactly the same as a 2000 kg vehicle traveling at 40 kph and, although travelling at the same speed as a bullet, the amount of energy is 356 times greater due to the higher mass.
To convert to something easily understood - the hammer would hit the ground with the same energy as is contained in 30 Big Macs or what an average horse would eat in two days or what a 35 lb dog would eat in a month.
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8 minutes ago, dagger said:
Unless the Labour Code has changed to bar such "leaks", I think they are entitled to say or leak what they wish.
I'm certainly no expert on this but doesn't the NDA prevent this? Or shouldn't it prevent this? I don't suppose a NDA is required by the regulations but if one is signed as part of it... Also, "leaking" information is a sort of backdoor way for the company to go around the union leadership and bargain directly with the members which is forbidden by the regs.
13 minutes ago, dagger said:Unions certainly do the opposite when bargaining terms are concessionary or underwhelming.
Perhaps in some cases but ALPA has not done this. All they have said is generalities or responses to the leaked information. The "we offered them 30%" came from the company.
15 minutes ago, dagger said:Anyway, the pilots won't see another offer until the strike starts.
Or until the lockout happens.
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MONTREAL, Sept. 9, 2024 /CNW/ - Air Canada today said that it is finalizing contingency plans to suspend most of its operations. Talks between the company and the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), representing more than 5,200 pilots at Air Canada and Air Canada Rouge, continue, but the parties remain far apart. Unless an agreement is reached, beginning on September 15, 2024, either party may issue a 72-hour strike or lock out notice, which would trigger the carrier's three-day wind down plan.
"Air Canada believes there is still time to reach an agreement with our pilot group, provided ALPA moderates its wage demands which far exceed average Canadian wage increases. However, Canadians have recently seen the chaos abrupt airline shutdowns cause for travellers, which obliges us to do everything we can to protect our customers from an increasingly likely work stoppage. This includes the extremely difficult decision to begin an orderly shutdown of Air Canada and Air Canada Rouge once a 72-hour strike or lock out notice is given, possibly as early as this Sunday," said Michael Rousseau, President and Chief Executive Officer of Air Canada.
Air Canada and ALPA have been in discussions for 15 months. Although tentative agreement has been reached on a large number of items for a new collective agreement, the union remains inflexible on its unreasonable wage demands.
The company is committed to maintaining its pilots' historic position as the best paid commercial pilots in Canada and is continuing to negotiate to secure such an agreement.
Alternatively, it has offered to the union to submit to arbitration. To date, the Federal Labour Minister has assisted the negotiation process by appointing a conciliator and mediator, and if a negotiated settlement is not reached, Air Canada would look to the government to intervene, as it has in recent labour disputes, to avoid a major disruption for Canadian travellers and other stakeholders. (bolding mine) A timeline of negotiations, backgrounders on the issues, pilot compensation and other information about the negotiations is available on our Media Centre. -
49 minutes ago, Kip Powick said:
The music was "OUCH ".
Interesting and I guess technology for video photography wasn't that good back then. Loved how all the workers were so safety conscience with the (tie-offs) he said sarcastically.
63 Millon back then and almost 4 years. Do it today and it would 10 years due to safety constraints, union strikes etc. and cost “estimate” about 320 million.
Surprisingly only one worker died during the build. A piece of plywood fell, hit a worker on the ground in the neck and killed him.
Interesting numbers; 63 million dollars in 1975 is 350 million in 2024 dollars. Don't know if you did the math on that or are some kind of math savant!
While watching the clip towards the end with the guy driving pins in the top section with a 5lb sledgehammer all I could wonder was what's the terminal velocity of a sledgehammer dropped from 1800' AGL and how big the hole in the sidewalk would be?
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10 minutes ago, Turbofan said:
It looks like "the people familiar with the matter" were trying to foster an environment that would support government intervention.
Who would benefit from that?
Yes, quite the mystery. What this country really needs is some sort of agency that would monitor these sorts of situations. You know, to hold everyone accountable to the rules and laws, etc.
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Here's a cool vid about construction of the CN Tower. The music will drive you bonkers but there is some interesting shots of the final topping and the Toronto skyline at the end.
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39 minutes ago, mrlupin said:
The comparison with CN and CPKC as far as intentional leaking goes is quite different. The Rail companies didn't appear to have non disclosure agreements. I listened to CN adverts during the buildup to government intervention and they were disclosing most details and even telling people to go to their website to see the proposals.
https://www.cn.ca/en/media/bargaining-updates
Hmmm, well, maybe I'm wrong about CN CPKC. I know the NDAs are a standard feature of bargaining but maybe not in that case. Certainly was in the AC/ALPA bargaining though.
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37 minutes ago, deicer said:
In a significant escalation of labor tensions, Air Canada pilots have overwhelmingly rejected a 30% wage increase proposal from the airline.
Wow! 30% is an amazing deal, right? How come they rejected it?
First, it's not really 30%. It's 20%, 3.3%, 3.3%, 3.3% - a four year deal.
Second, the end result is that an AC A320 pilot would still earn less than a Westjet B737 pilot.
Third, there is no description of what "improvements" in productivity or scope the company has left out of their "leaked" info.
Fourth, over the last 10 years the annual pay increase for pilots has been 0.5%. Nope that's not a typo. The AC pilots have fallen so far behind the industry that it's time to recover and 30% over 4 years won't do it.
Fifth, when is any corporation in Canada going to get penalized for bad faith bargaining? This information was intentionally leaked by management against the NDA they signed for the sole intention of turning public sentiment against the pilots. CN and CPKC did the exact same thing - "leaked" some carefully selected information about the negotiations to turn sentiment against the union. Where's the government to fine or otherwise penalize the coroporation?
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59 minutes ago, UpperDeck said:
Don't know how I missed that comment!!
Well....Air Canada has 5000 pilots, correct? In Ontario alone there are almost 60,000 lawyers!!
You can protect yourself from an incompetent lawyer. Walk out the door.
But that unwitting pax who has no opportunity to vet who is in the pointy end.....??
Did you read about the unfortunate patient in Florida who was scheduled for a splenectomy and died when the surgeon instead removed his liver?
The difference between a pilot and a lawyer and between a pilot and a surgeon is that the pilot's along for the ride. This is a very strong motivator. I wonder if a lawyer was going to share the same sentence as his client if there'd be more effort put in? Of course the vast majority of lawyers are fine and there are many life situations where they are indispensable so I make no blanket statements and hope if I have to make a midnight call that it gets answered.
Anyway, the point of my post was that a minimum level of skill for a pilot is enough that he doesn't get killed, the minimum level of competence for a lawyer (surgeon, engineer) is that they don't get reported to their ethics board for review.
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4 minutes ago, Kip Powick said:
While the pay is low and daily costs are high, the extreme militancy demonstrated by many can partially be explained by an employed generation of "sense of entitlement and gentle parenting" individuals. ..........you see it everyday, everywhere
I think you're wrong here Kip. These are not unskilled minimum wage staff demanding "stuff" for free. These are pilots who have paid far more than you might realize to get where they are and want a fair wage.
You might see the "entitled" when you are out and about but these guys aren't them.
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On 8/30/2024 at 10:55 PM, Turbofan said:
Who is the target audience they are both trying to influence and why?
Enlighten us. APLA is obviously mindful that their own members are reading and following what is disseminated publicly and AC is clearly speaking to their customers and investors but who is the target audience - the government?
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1 hour ago, Turbofan said:
....the three-week cooling off period gives the parties more than sufficient time to address any outstanding issues. Air Canada is fully committed to bargaining meaningfully throughout the period.
Hey, good news!
Oh, wait, maybe they're not serious and are just making happy noises for the public?
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Click the pic below and a another page full of photos will load. Two thousand pilots at the four bases including pilots from Westjet, Transat, Jazz, Delta, United and others.
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21 minutes ago, UpperDeck said:
I suspect you get more pleasure from preaching to the choir than discussing the generalities of unionization so I'll quietly withdraw.
No, please don't (quietly withdraw). I value these opportunities to test my foil as I don't get many. Perhaps I came across too strongly - I enjoy the debate.
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1 hour ago, UpperDeck said:
By definition, unions serve the best interests of the "average" and protect the under-achiever. Those who excel and who are desirous of advancing the interests of their employer are frowned upon....there can be no individual "lets" on contractual terms.
I'm not sure what union you are referring to or imagining but the "average" pilot must successfully pass multiple exams and demonstrations of skills and technical knowledge every year. The average pilot flies the airplane to the destination according to assigned flying. The average train engineer moves the trains. Perhaps you're thinking about municipal workers sleeping in their trucks behind the strip mall when they should be filling potholes? There is no ability to shirk work or under-achieve as a pilot or train engineer.
1 hour ago, UpperDeck said:Labour groups advocated for increased minimum wages in California. Ask how many "mom&pop" operations have suffered as a result of their advocacy. Not to mention the students and part-time workers at fast food restaurants.
I make no apologies....I'm a capitalist and have no interest in pulling others up from the mire.
Surely you are not comparing minimum wage fast food workers with pilots or rail engineers? The discussion about the value of increasing minimum wage is an interesting one but has no relevance here.
1 hour ago, UpperDeck said:I recall you mentioning on another thread your experience with distortion and illusion in flight.....a somatogravic event. I am sure that was traumatic and frankly, I have absolutely no desire to share the experience.
I have however asked other aviators both commercial and private including an acrobatic expert whether this is "common". Perhaps they prevaricated but they said "no".
I suspect you've been served the "non-pilot" talking points as pilots tend to underplay the reality, even to friends. The problem is that it's impossible to describe without coming off as if you're trying to be dramatic and solicit admiration. I only mention here because your comments seem to be in the area of "piloting is nothing special".
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1 hour ago, UpperDeck said:
1) Corporations are greedy and evil;
True. The whole idea behind a "corporation" is to be as greedy as possible - generally phrased as to "seek maximum profit for it's shareholders". Some corporations are evil. Not that I think it's a goal but they certainly are conscienceless.
1 hour ago, UpperDeck said:2) Unions are solely motivated by the desire to enhance the well-being of their members;
Yes. What else should they be motivated by? Unions seek the best deal for their members in the same way that corporations seek maximum profit.
1 hour ago, UpperDeck said:3) compulsory arbitration breaches the right of workers to collectively withdraw their services;
Yes, it does. Unless, of course, they are an essential service. Right now the gov and the corps want to have their cake and eat it too. Are the railways an essential service (with the associated rights and obligations) or not? If they are - binding arbitration, if they are not then their rights have been breached.
1 hour ago, UpperDeck said:4) airline pilots should be paid "significant" salaries and receive enhanced benefits regardless of the impact on other employees and the employer simply because there is a shortage of pilots.
They seek salaries and benefits commensurate with the cost and effort to obtain the required training and skills along with the lifestyle impacts and responsibility the career demands.
1 hour ago, UpperDeck said:This notwithstanding that SOME current airline pilots really aren't pilots in that "old fashioned way" and can't distinguish between taxiways and causeways and runways and apparently are puzzled by the impact of ice formation on the aircraft wings!!
In that case let's include executives that can't manage their way out of a wet paper bag. Let's include elected members who can't understand that hiring your brother-in-law's consulting firm for a sole-source, no-bid contract is an ethics violation.
It's true that occasional, rare accidents find human error as an underlying cause or partially at fault. Same as when the space shuttle crashes, a train crashes, a nuclear reactor melts or a doctor makes an error.
These are the sorts of comments that come from someone who has never experienced somatogravic and somatogyral Illusions. Someone who's never looked out the window at a wet runway in reduced visibility with moderate turbulence in a aircraft rapidly burning fuel and had to make a snap decision to land or go to the alternate airport. No, I'm not trying to make pilots look like movie action heroes - the point is that the job is far, far more complicated than the public realizes.
I hired a lawyer recently and it's been nothing but incompetence. Many of my friends have the same story. If pilots flew aircraft like lawyers lawyer there'd be a crash every day.
1 hour ago, UpperDeck said:Just poking a little at "the beast". In a past life, I dealt marginally with municipal unions....fire and police....each seeking parity with each other and province wide regardless of risk.
What risk?
1 hour ago, UpperDeck said:We couldn't negotiate with those unions in good conscience and went to arbitration. We ALWAYS lost.
Your point is obviously dealing with "essential service" designated unions. The AC pilots are not an essential service and neither are/were the railways.
The gov and the CIRB acted illegally in the railway matter. What will be the consequence? Nothing. They'll say, "oh, sorry, we were wrong", nudge, nudge, wink, wink.
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6 hours ago, Malcolm said:
And you seem to forget the following,
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News about Teamsters Canada Serves Strike Notice On Both Cana…
Ottawa, May 1, 2024 – The Teamsters Canada Rail Conference (TCRC) today announced that close to 10,000 workers at CN and CPKC have voted to authorize strikes at both companies. Unless parties can reach an agreement, a work stoppage can occur as early as May 22, at 00:01.
Read that carefully - they were both voting to authorize a strike - that's not the same as serving strike notice. The headline is misleading.
In fact the union offered to stagger the negotiations back in May/June to prevent the simultaneous lockout or strike and the companies refused to accept it. This was because the companies knew if only one company was shutdown the chance of the gov intervening would be reduced. The companies orchestrated the shutdown. It was the companies who were holding the population hostage. They obviously decided that the 3 or 4 day shutdown with gov intervention to end it would cost less than what the employees were asking for.
https://teamsters.ca/blog/2024/06/07/cn-and-cpkc-reject-offer-to-stagger-negotiations/
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1 minute ago, FA@AC said:
It’s perhaps worth nothing, but the rumor mill has it that AC plans to announce a lock out of ALPA to take effect as of the first day it can legally can.
I also expect this. No doubt they are hoping for the same sort of government intervention.
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8 minutes ago, Malcolm said:
both are negated by the rights of Canadian Citizens(exonomic impact) vs that of Unions / businesses
Hah! If that's true why not make them work for minimum wage? Why not make everyone work for minimum wage? It would certainly make things cheaper for the Canadian citizen. In fact, why pay people anything at all - cheaper still.
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Just now, Specs said:
In the past 60 yrs there have been 35 cases of back to work legislation enacted by the Federal Government (Liberal and Conservatives) Most of those have been in the area of Transportation of Goods (the Ports, the Rail companies, Ship lines and even Airlines) They account for 20% of GDP and few governments if any are gonna allow for that kind of loss to continue.
So where is the balance between worker's rights and the company's economic interest?
I totally understand the importance of the transport industry but if the company can just refuse to bargain and rely on the gov to force the resolution there is no balance. Maybe the entire transport industry should be an essential service with associated obligations on both parties?
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1 hour ago, Vsplat said:
Whether to believe that this is so is up to the reader, but it might lend some explanation as to why a total railroad shutdown, with all of its tactical disadvantages to the union, was chosen over the approach suggested above by Dagger.
Vs
I think the explanation is much more basic. The unions wanted to have staggered negotiations so they could leverage the losses of one company against the other and the companies wanted simultaneous negotiations so they could leverage the short but intense economic pressures against the unions. The companies obviously knew (or guessed, fortuitously) that the government would force arbitration and end it and decided the cost of a shutdown for a few days was less than the cost of giving the employees what they wanted.
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29 minutes ago, dagger said:
Well, I don't think so, you have to be smart about it, like Unifor does with the Auto companies, taking them on one-by-one even though the contracts have a similar expiry. The Teamsters could have picked one railway for a pattern and slow-walked the other, and then the public impact wouldn't have been so great or immediate that rapid intervention was required. Of anything, that would have inflicted a lot more hurt on the company being struck because some business - containers and piggyback, for example - could have moved to the other, operating railway
Hello dagger, glad to see your participation.
The unions did attempt to stagger the negotiations and this was rejected by the corporations. I believe this was done to bring the most pressure possible on the government to intervene by the corporations! It's clear they had no desire to actually negotiate believing the feds would intervene as they did. They anticipated and planned the shutdown and the CIRB order.
https://teamsters.ca/blog/2024/06/07/cn-and-cpkc-reject-offer-to-stagger-negotiations/
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27 minutes ago, J.O. said:
IMHO, the court would only be ruling on the constitutionality of the government's action to end the rail lockout. Whatever collective agreements may result from the government's intervention are not grist for that particular mill.
Yes, that's what I'm saying. The arbitration comes to a new contract and that bargaining cycle is done. If the court decides the gov acted illegally, so what? They have a contract and there's nothing due to them for what they lost in the process. The only way to get a better contract is next bargaining cycle. This completely undermines the worker's rights. The only "cost" to the gov is being seen by the public as having intervened and, TBH, most people don't care, they just don't want to be inconvenienced.
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11 hours ago, Turbofan said:
That means challenging to a higher court to get an answer which the CN union is doing. It likely won’t stick, it may have to go back to the Supp Court even, but in the interim it’s a risk to anyone flirting with labour action.
We may end up joining in the line with the CN union.
So, the railway workers are forced back to work and two years from now the Supreme Court deems the gov's action illegal - what are the implications, what remedy or compensation is due?
I see the AC pilots in the same situation; it goes to midnight and they're out on the street (strike or lockout) after a short period (couple of days or a week) the gov instructs the CIRB to direct them to arbitration and they go back to work. The arbitration process results in a new contract and 2 years later the Supreme Court says the whole thing was illegal. Now what? Too bad, so sad and the pilots get nothing?
Air Canada pilot strike vote open.
in Airline Aviation Forum
Posted
Last numbers I saw had AC with a 44% market share domestically. September being the shoulder season I would expect Westjet, Flair, Porter have extra capacity available so the net loss might be 40% or even as low as 35%. Jazz would get re-deployed to service the holes. A significant impact on travel options no doubt but does it rise to the level of a national emergency that necessitates a weak minority government to intervene? I guess we'll see.