deicer Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Looks like Walmart is taking another shot to the shorts..... http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...Story/Business/ As well, the Toronto Star reported the same story with an addendum that Walmart's in China are under pressure to unionise as well. Could it be that the unwashed masses are rushing the ramparts for more equitable treatment? Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rattler Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Looks like Walmart is taking another shot to the shorts..... http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...Story/Business/ As well, the Toronto Star reported the same story with an addendum that Walmart's in China are under pressure to unionise as well. Could it be that the unwashed masses are rushing the ramparts for more equitable treatment? Iceman Of course it is the very same unwashed masses who shop at Walmart and marvel at the bargins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted November 24, 2004 Author Share Posted November 24, 2004 Hopefully with improved wages and working conditions, they may one day be able to shop at the Bay,,, And heaven forbid.... Even be able to purchase a flight to somewhere to go on vacation. More for them, more for us. Works kinda neat, don't it????? Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Dundee Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 More for them, more for us. Works kinda neat, don't it????? Iceman The prices will increase at Walmart, people will have less money to spend on travelling. Kinda neat? Or, people will shop elsewhere and there will be less demand for Walmart, therefore less demand for employees. Less jobs. Economics numbs my mind. Can anyone shed some light on how all these variables interact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted November 24, 2004 Author Share Posted November 24, 2004 It has gone so far, you have to start somewhere with the reversal of the spiral to the bottom. With everything tied together, something has to give. It has been shown though, that if you give more money to a wealthy person, they will tend to save it, if you give to a lower income person, they tend to spend. Where would you start? Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steam Driven Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 "It has gone so far, you have to start somewhere with the reversal of the spiral to the bottom. With everything tied together, something has to give. It has been shown though, that if you give more money to a wealthy person, they will tend to save it, if you give to a lower income person, they tend to spend. Where would you start?" The wealthy person saves by investing. Stock's, bonds, financial instruments which in turn are used to create/grow businesses, create more wealth and more jobs. Vicious circle isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted November 24, 2004 Author Share Posted November 24, 2004 The wealthy person saves by investing. Stock's, bonds, financial instruments which in turn are used to create/grow businesses, create more wealth and more jobs. Yet to maximize profits, the jobs they create are at the bottom end of the wage scale, thus perpetuating the cycle. The cycle must be broken. Makes you go "Hmmmm" when it was also reported today that the Bank of Montreal has another year of "record" profits. Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steam Driven Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 "Yet to maximize profits, the jobs they create are at the bottom end of the wage scale, thus perpetuating the cycle." Do those jobs created not require more Management? Supervisors? Administrator's? Hardly bottom wage scale jobs. How about construction jobs to create the building where these enterprises take place? Someone to look after the Payroll and Benefits of those jobs? Do those new employee's not pay taxes and then go out and spend money where they can to create more jobs? Do they not go where their money will buy the most. The most product for the least money? Do you spend more money to facilitate a higher wage for the worker or do you try to get the most for your dollar? Or would you deny them the Wal-Mart prices and force them to shop at The Bay to facilitate the "Higher Salaries". Quite the conundrum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted November 25, 2004 Author Share Posted November 25, 2004 Do those jobs created not require more Management? Supervisors? Administrator's? Hardly bottom wage scale jobs. Therin lies the problem, methinks.... Managerial ranks and salaries have risen out of step with the workforce. Wasn't it 25 years ago that CEO salaries were only about 10 times that of the average front line worker, yet now they are 200 times? Couple that with the outrageous bonuses they get, and tell me... Is it value for the buck? Do they add that much value? Managerial ranks have swollen while the production staff have been cut. Is that "right-sizing". Construction jobs? I don't know where you live, but a vast majority of construction workers in the GTA are non-unionised, and most are in the underground economy who will undercut contracts just to get the work. My subdivision was built by a group of SriLankan tradesmen, and the site was shut down because they weren't following safety rules. My house was delayed 7 months because of that. Personally, I drive a north American car, buy local produce, and refuse to shop at Walmart because of what they do to the economy. And if I have a choice, most of my purchases tend to be Canadian products if I have a choice in the matter. Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steam Driven Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 I live in Calgary. Housing starts are at an all-time high. Construction worker's are in demand and the Trade Schools are advertising to get more students to consider the "Trades". "Personally, I drive a north American car, buy local produce, and refuse to shop at Walmart because of what they do to the economy. And if I have a choice, most of my purchases tend to be Canadian products if I have a choice in the matter." We drive N.A. cars as well. You will notice in those N.A. cars a Transmission assembled in Mexico, seats covered in fabric manufactured in China and a Japanese Stereo. What's your point? Everything has a price point. To get the price that people are willing to pay one has to produce the product the most cost effective way. Charge too much, no one will buy your product, you and your factory full of workers are left with two feet and a heartbeat... Interesting that you include produce in your list... Do you do without tomatoe's, lettuce, and oranges in your household? We live in a free market economy. Captial flows where it will get the best return. If one imposes artificial means into the equation, it is rejected by capital and the money, and jobs, go elsewhere... We saw that example with Trudeau's National Energy Policy here in Alberta. You tax the company's too much, you put barrier's in the way of them conducting business and the capital flows elswhere. The drilling stopped, the exploration went elswhere, the Alberta economy tanked and unemployment rose. Why would a company invest if there was not return on investment? If the money was to be given to Ottawa in taxes. Therein lies the big problem. Taxation. Reduce the tax burden, and the average worker would have more money in his pocket to spend and grow the economy and jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted November 25, 2004 Author Share Posted November 25, 2004 Regarding produce,,, In the winter months, it is amazing how you can get by without buying fresh lettuce, tomatoes and the like. It is proven that frozen veggies have the same nutritional value as fresh, and I replace salads in our diet with coleslaw, pickles and the like that can be stored in the fall. I have no problems with making profit, but does it have to be a record profit every quarter? In the instance of banks, instead of making $2.5 Billion in profit, what if they made only $1.5 billion in profit, while lowering marginally service fees and interest rates? Wouldn't that be a bigger benefit to society? What needs to be done is to set realistic goals and to be responsible to society and one another. Greed is too big a part of the equation. When did "too much" become enough? I'm not saying that we have to not enjoy life, but we do need to rationalise our wants. Maybe then we won't be as hard on our planet and ourselves..... Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 And then you have to add this into the equation..... how many "average" workers really care where they buy a product as long as they get the best price. Easy for some currently employed people to boycott Wal-Mart, perhaps they have more loose change.... but there are thousands on fixed incomes and thousands that are not that will go for the best price...and I am one of them. So what is the problem? I really don't care where the product comes from as long as the quality is there, and I am not in the minority. Based on what I see, those that won't shop at Walmart are in the minority, or perhaps I go there when it is terribly busy..I dunno. I certainly don't go looking to ensure everything has a Made in Canada label on it. At what time do we throw up our hands and say," I'm not paying that anymore, I can get it cheaper elsewhere"? I'm afraid I don't look at Walmart as the big giant smoothering the little guy, I look at Walmart as a company that is leveling the consumers playing field with regard to prices. I hate to harp about the fixed income people, (I am not at a fixed income), but at the rate stores are boosting their prices, the poor fixed income folks will soon be out of the "extras" buying loop. This is a true story..... went to get a cassette recorder with AM/FM for Scuba 02 as hers broke and she loves to listen while working out at the fitness center. The identical model, made in China, can be purchased at Canadian Tire, Radio Shack , and Wal-Mart. The prices, respectively, were 24.95, 19.95 and 9.95 You know which one I bought...which one would you buy?? Fire away...but I go for the biggest bang for the buck and that's the way it is in my small world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpperDeck Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 Very simple response...predatory pricing. The fact is that the product you purchased at WalMart for $9.95 in a big-city suburb is $14.94 elsewhere. Why? Because WalMart beats the price of any local competitor and will continue to do so until it has no local rivals whereupon, the price ascends. If WalMart doesn't succeed in a local market, it simply pulls out; big box vacancies and to hell with the small-market corpses left behind. The consumer thinks of nothing but the price. The fact that "John" who ran the small hardware round the corner is out of business because he couldn't compete with Walmart--"Oh! Is that related?" The municipal council is concerned only with taxes and that major development generates a LOT more than the 1200 sq.ft. corner variety. Realtors, developers --all short term profit hungry perspectives. "They paved paradise and put up a parking lot.." In the end and for that $0.16 cent saving, we all pay a VERY big price...and I'm no better for all of that preaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 A similar discussion from another aviation forum. Kid Walmart Analogy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deicer Posted November 25, 2004 Author Share Posted November 25, 2004 Two of the quotes from that thread that I particularly liked..... "I was referring to their methods of buying merchandise, which is to play one low cost, 3rd world supplier off another, so that in the end, nobody really makes any money except WalMart itself. This was well documented in a recent Wall Street Journal article about how working conditions in Chinese factories are extremely unsafe, and the Chinese contractors themselves are hard pressed to make a profit at the prices WalMart wants to pay. And in the end, that's why the truck driver can live in a nice house. It's not magic, it's exploiting the spread between the cost of buying in China, where there is little or no enforcement of already weak environmental and labor law, and selling in America in huge quantities. If they had to source merchandise from factories that observed US or even international law, they wouldn't be so profitable." And this one..... "People always love huge, lowest cost operations like WalMart or Southwest until a company with a similar philosophy enters their own line of business and causes them to take a pay cut or lose their job. When it happens to you, it isn't fun, but that's why companies like WalMart are called "category killers." And no, I don't care how smart you think you are, or how entitled you think you are to make a decent living, when it happens to you you won't enjoy having to compete with them. Just think about it." These days, our governments are pretty well castrated, so the only way we will affect change is by voting with our wallets. Iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newgirl Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 In a perfect world we as Canadians would purchase only from Canadian companies. IE the Bay , Zellars , Rona , Canadian Tire etc. However its not a perfect world and the consumer will go to the store that has the cheapest prices. Walmart! So we as consumers have no one to blame but ourselves when companies start to "outsource to India" AC has already started this trend with Lost Baggage and Reservations. So when many of you lose jobs to India , remember you wanted the cheapest price possible. Unfortunately for you that means India! The cheapest price can mean very few jobs for your children unless they relocate to the 3rd world countries or enjoy working in the hospitality industry at minimum wage. Buy Canadian , its almost your duty as most of us here on this site are making very good wages. Forget Walmart - support your Canadian companies!!!!!! Now that the the Can. dollar is rising , I can just see the cheapos crossing the border for the deals ..its pretty sickening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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