Guest A310 Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 So what you are saying is that if I am #7 entering the downwind i will end up 10 miles final and losing the 6000 feet is a moot point-I will always be positioned in the same spot. Thanks Nancy I appreciate your posting and feel better about ATC in YYZ. Oh just a sec. Could you explain how I sometimes get turned in tight (inside 10 miles) trying to catch the glideslope from above - Ok I'll be ready next time - oops now I am turning 20 miles final, dirtied up with only 1 aircraft 8 miles ahead of me. I guess if I knew my sequence or distance to fly I wouldn't burn up all that costly fuel. Yes, some of us have jobs which depend on the financial viability of our airlines. By the way. ATC is only one part of our equation. Sometimes these distractions, when added to other things going on compromise flight safety. Should I ask what # I am on the approach? What if Nanci is working - she might snicker. Too bad. ATC is a service. It's not the other way around. Answering a simple question on sequencing may take away one distraction which may clear the air when dealing with something else. Flight safety - do you know what that is Nancy? - may be enhanced by providing the crew with this little bit of info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shibui Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Don't know if you are being disingenuous or are just unaware but at LHR once you have been passed the track miles it is now your responsbility to ensure that no level flight segment of more than two miles occurs from that point until touchdown. It's not a courtesy by any means, it's information passed so that you can comply with procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchman Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 It's been a few years since I got over to "jolly old" (been stuck in the colonies for the past 5 years) and the part about not levelling off had slipped my mind. I'll be sure to review my LHR procedures before reentering. Regardless, in my opinion, track miles to touchdown is good information to have and, in my opinion, of better value than my sequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAS Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Thats V with a 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCDU Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Whatever happened to that guy, anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Request deviations Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Without knowing the "history" between individual posters (and quite frankly I don't really care)I might point out that here in the Atlantic region we all get together every six months and chat. The issues are often of a safety type but operational issues are discussed as well. The meetings are alternated between YHZ and YYT and typically something in the order of 70 odd show up. These good folks represent larger operators ie. Jazz, AC, Canjet, lesser operators like Provincial and Prince Edward, corporate flight departments, flight schools, Navcanada, TC, airports, DND, etc, etc. There is an obvious clearer understanding of everyones roles and responsibilities and limitations. Issues have come up that have shown a disagreement between NC MANOPS and many operator OPS manuals. Changes were effected. Having chatted with some of my colleagues across the country about this I am sometimes asked "why do you bother wasting your time going to those"? It's not rocket science to understand that you can be in someone elses shoes for a minute it makes the visability so much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest A310 Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Ok - open discussion. Answer the question then. Why am I sometimes turned in tight, within 10 miles, having to catch the glideslope from above? And again - Why am I sometimes left in the downwind segment only to be turned a 20 mile final, 8 miles in trail, number 2 on the approach, with no departures on the landing runway? The spacing or sequence question answered provides situational awareness. I am capable of doing math and understand the ratios required to slow, descend and set up an aircraft for landing. 24 miles to lose 8000 feet. How often is this descent provided in a continuous flow which allows for proper set up. Not often. A310 BTW: I never ask that question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kevenv Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gino Under Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 A310 Careful partner, I'd say the little white line thingy on your lower tv screen gives you all the info you need to out guess approach control. Right? Throw in some TCAS backup info and you got 'er aced. (just a suggestion) Try running downwind clean just above S Speed or Slats extended at 210 (or as assigned) Stay there till you're LOC*. Bug Vapp at two dots and slide down the GS steadily configuring on schedule. You should hit 1000', on speed, configured to land. Airbus designed the A310 decelerated approach just for crazy airports like LAX, YYZ, etc. (but I'm sure you know that) Vectors for an intercept makes it even easier to configure cause the range markers and junior high geomety give you a darned good idea of how far out you should intercept that final approach course you just loaded in the FMS. Besides, the A310 precision approach profile works like a charm, unless you're running the show off profile? (which I'm sure you aren't) I kinda think she's right...moot point my man. I just think it's too simple a request to comply with than to have to lob back and forth over like this. If somebody wants to know their sequence, give 'em a warm fuzzy. ( Atco Annie talking to approaching Easy Jet 234: "Hopefully I'll be able to turn you on at 6 miles?" Easy Jet 234: "I dont think I've had the pleasure madam, but you may certainly try." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfhunter Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 No white line or TV screen here! For what it is worth I agree with A310’s two previous posts. The debate is entirely lost on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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