Guest directlaw Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 "Did you pull those numbers out of your rear end?" From the embraer web site http://www.embraer.com/english/content/home/ "Show me an airline flying the 170 with 78 seats." Don't know nor do I care. "And the 190 with 106 seats? Who are you trying to con? Even JetBlue isn't only going with 100 seats. " again embrear's web site. Maximum seating capacity 106 seats. "The fact ACPA has some theoretical seating numbers doesn't hold squat in the real world. " In the real world it is called industry standard. MCSC - maximum certified seating capacity. "I say let Teplitsky have at it." He is. He has already said it will be rights based. "And I have no particular pro-Jazz sentiment. I just tire of hearing the same-old same-old from ACPA. Selective leaking to prop up a tired and backward looking leadership." No your not pro Jazz just anti ACPA "Job #1 for all parties should be to put forward an Air Canada that is so successful financially that NO LCC can even beat you and NO INTERNATIONAL LCC can ever preclude your growth. Yet every time somebody puts forward a low-risk idea to generate some new coin, ACPA is there to point fingers at past sins." Boils down to trust.....There used to be little now there is none. "I'm sure the airline is not blameless, but don't you really think the parties have to meet half way for a change. If AC is willing to take a limited financial risk to start something new, shouldn't ACPA help - under very strict conditions - to see if it works? Then it becomes the proverbial win-win. More ACPA flying, more AC profit. Longer term, more AC profit means wage restoration and enhancement, pension security (see "United") and opportunities to do new things." Absolutely.......but again it boils down to trust. "ACPA to judge from what is being posted here, is standing firmly against any meaningful collaboration (that isn't foisted on it at gunpoint with Justice Winkler and Farley in the background)." Absolutely false. A win win would be fantastic. ACPA has collaborated on numerous Lou's. Most recently the 767 to Asia without a bunk. You don't here about the successes...just the failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest directlaw Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 In other words, you're waiting for a pliant, subserviant bureaucrat who will roll over and not care about the bottom line. No. Just someone who can be trusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fido Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Fido, Are you suggesting that every time ACE changes its business plan ( like every third day) they have a right to change the .... He already has cheap emb pilots but if he can get them cheaper he will add even more value. .... Yes the plan changes everyday. The market changes everyday. The competitors are changing their approach to the market everyday. The unions at the competitors are changing their contracts everyday. Ths customer is changing their approach to flying everyday. Nothing remains static except unions and governments and some of us would opine that those two groups are only backward looking, wishing for what had gone on before. Air Canada has cheap pilots??? But, would enough of those laid off pilots turn down a recall to fly these jets because 'the pay scales aren't high enough'? When the rates get so low that there is no longer a line-up at the hiring office and/or laid off pilots turn down the offer of a recall, then AC has cheap pilots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Oh, so you admit there have been successes? Maybe some people have some trust. Maybe it's primarily you who have a trust problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 No. Just someone who can be trusted. Trouble is that your definition of trust is someone who doesn't care about profitability and will do ACPA's bidding. Ain't going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest directlaw Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 It may be that it won't make money as an ACPA venture and that the project will have to be shut down for that reason. absolutely, How much do you want to bet that in two years you will be on this forum arguing the opposite. That ACPA is being unreasonable. AC cargo is not viable within ACE and we should let the company continue contracting out the flying. Do you really believe that flying is coming back to ACPA without a fight? In arbitration there is always risk. He could win. Odds are that eventually, with enough attempts, he will win This keeps coming down to one thing.....trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest directlaw Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Trouble is that your definition of trust is someone who doesn't care about profitability and will do ACPA's bidding. False Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 absolutely, How much do you want to bet that in two years you will be on this forum arguing the opposite. That ACPA is being unreasonable. AC cargo is not viable within ACE and we should let the company continue contracting out the flying. Do you really believe that flying is coming back to ACPA without a fight? In arbitration there is always risk. He could win. Odds are that eventually, with enough attempts, he will win This keeps coming down to one thing.....trust. By your definition that there could always be an arbitration into something that hasn't happened, you would never agree to anything, not even the LOU's that you have described as a win-win. I don't know, is there an old mine shaft you can live in until the threat of the appocalypse has passed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest directlaw Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Maybe it's primarily you who have a trust problem. Tricked once shame on you.......tricked twice shame on me. You start to get personnel with your insults when you get frustrated don't you Mr. Dagger. I agree with you on one level. There is problem and I think it is much more serious than most realize G2G ..once it gets dark I can not find my way back to my mine shaft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Tricked once shame on you.......tricked twice shame on me. You start to get personnel with your insults when you get frustrated don't you Mr. Dagger. I agree with you on one level. There is problem and I think it is much more serious than most realize G2G ..once it gets dark I can not find my way back to my mine shaft No, I get frustrated with Neatherthal thinking that holds it's always somebody else's fault. You talk about Trust. Well, people like Don Hudson and other captains are engaged in processes like FOQA that require some trust. No matter how many double blind guarantees you can negotiate, there is always an element of faith in the pilot-company relationship. Milton is there, and he has the trust of the shareholders, the board and a lot of other people at AC. He's making strides at winning back customers and repairing the airline's image. But something never change... ACPA... Pam Sachs... Canadian winters... Here's why I generally support Milton He is entrepreneurial in a company that has never had an entrepreneur He is a risk taker in a company where "play it safe" has always been the mantra. He is abrasive, in a company where ass-kissing was (and sometimes still is) a high art form. He is down to earth, this in a company where the executives used to have their own chef and ran up gigantic tabs at the Beaver Club. Robert will bring a sandwich from home wrapped in tin foil. (And Lamar, bless his heart, loves "steamies"....) He is informal and broadminded towards people, this in a company which once had a problem with you if your mother tongue wasn't English and you didn't have a WASP, upper crust background. God forbid if you had an ethnic name. He is global in his perspective, this in a company which shuddered when Hollis decided to fly to New Delhi and Tel Aviv (you should have heard some of the board members on that one... it was like AC was catering to the wrong "crowd", nudge nudge.) Look at the routes Milton wants to fly. I trust Milton to do what's best to reconcile the various interests at AC and develop the best airline for the future - a healthy and prosperous one. I don't know how somebody could ever earn your trust, Directlaw, but I suspect that trust would come at a very high price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dozerboy Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Dagger, What in the hell is Neatherthal? Dozer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagger Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Dagger, What in the hell is Neatherthal? Dozer A Dutch Neanderthal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dozerboy Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Listen Dagger If there is two things that I can't stand. People that are intolerant of other people's culture and the Dutch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W5 Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 I guess that you won't like me, huh? Anyway this is from YYZNews: )...on November 9th, Robert Milton CEO addressed the Smith Barney investment conference in New York. Milton told the audience that the airline is emphasizing higher-yield international routes for its expansion plans and has a whole list of possible new destinations to fly to in the future. Flush with a significant lower cost structure and with tough new transit visa regulations in the U.S.A., Air Canada already finds itself at a new advantage as a North American transit channel for intercontinental traffic. In addition to extensive Latin American growth, the airline has recently launched non-stop Toronto-Delhi, Toronto-Hong Kong, and soon Sydney-Vancouver routes. In addition to returning to markets the airline could not make viable under its old cost structure, Air Canada will look to develop niche markets. In particular, the airline is looking at markets where there is strong demand from North America but which are not politically palpable to U.S. carriers today. "Markets like Beirut, and Tehran. There are a lot of Iranians in the U.S. and Canada. There are a lot of Lebanese in North America, but I predict it will be a long time before you see a U.S. legacy carrier on the ground in Beirut," said Milton. Unveiled to investment analysts was a map of theoretical non stop routes from Toronto to cities that also could include Budapest, Cairo, Colombo, Delhi, Dubai, Karachi, Moscow, Prague, Warsaw and other new destinations in Asia, Europe and Latin America. Additional non stop routes were suggested from secondary hubs in Montreal and Vancouver to a small share of destinations in Asia, Latin America, Europe, Africa and the Middle East. The addition of new international routes will require more long-haul aircraft. Milton said the airline is bringing back two Boeing 767-200s currently in storage in Mohave by December and that the airline will look at the used aircraft market as it considers additional growth. h)....it is also understood from internal sources that the airline is considering future long-range aircraft acquisitions....that may not necessarily be all Airbus equipment. Both the Boeing 777 and new 7E7 are under consideration along with Airbus products for future growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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