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Clive is becoming a liability


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Guest rattler
Ok the rhetoric aside ...... Leaving CJ rant alone.

What sort of costs are involved in interlining baggage ??

Is there not also some sort of regulatory process and licensing so to speak to go through with IATA ??? If there is I cannot imagine that is free either.

In partial answer to your question re Interlining......

The airlines belonging to IATA set the standards and carriers who interline adhere to those standards to provide a uniform product. The basic interline agreement between the carriers deals with things like who handles any claim, trace for lost or damaged baggage , transmission of information to the carrier at the transfer point etc.

The costs of interlining are the staff who do the interchange along with any changes in procedures etc needed to comply with the IATA standard

If you want to learn more about this subject you can visit the following site:

IATA Interline Agreement.

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It is time somebody wrote some new jokes for the flight attendants.

dagger, why do you mar your usually well-written and thought provoking posts with snide comments like this? icon_question.gif

edited in agreeance with Mitch's post on "outing." my apologies. But the question is still on the table.

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Guest rattler

It is time somebody wrote some new jokes for the flight attendants.

I bet you don't like Red Green either and are prob. not aware of the virtues of Duct Tape. biggrin.gif

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Canada Eh... (and others who fit into this particular shoe),

I find your continuing attempts to identify one of our fellow visitors to this site, who obviously wishes to remain anonymous, quite offensive.

Whether or not he has been correctly identified has never been the issue (in my eyes, though he may disagree)... What is the issue, it seems to me, is that he simply would prefer to remain anonymous. Yet, when some of you find yourselves in disagreement with him, you pull out the name you believe belongs to him, in a painfully obvious attempt to gain some sort of upper hand, through slimey tactics.

Would you appreciate it, Mr. Canada Eh, if I were to tell all that you were the one and only Melvin Hodgkins... a catering truck driver at WestJet? (for instance, regardless of proximity to truth?) ...and then, whenever you had me antsy in any kind of disagreement, I referred to you as such? ....I doubt it.

Please consider respecting the anonymity of all who post here and wish to remain anonymous.... regardless of whether or not you agree with their point of view.....?

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Guest rattler

Mitch: I believe the problem you are talking about only occurs because of the intense feeling of loyalty some folks have to Westjet coupled with their displeasure with a "poster" who claims to have no ties to AC but who could be considered to be biased in their favor based on some past guesses re his/her "real" identity. That being said, there is absolutely no excuse that anyone can use to justify "outing" an anonymous member.

This forum is a great place to express a point of view from behind a mask or in some cases from behind a beard. biggrin.gif I hope that continues to be so.

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Guest rattler
Mitch:

They love to try to out him whenever he makes a good point! It's getting pretty tired, IMHO.

Good points are like good jokes...... varies depending upon one's perspective. biggrin.gif

The attempt of "outing" is however def. getting old.....

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Mitch: I believe the problem you are talking about only occurs because of the intense feeling of loyalty some folks have to Westjet coupled with their displeasure with a "poster" who claims to have no ties to AC but who could be considered to be biased in their favor based on some past guesses re his/her "real" identity. That being said, there is absolutely no excuse that anyone can use to justify "outing" an anonymous member.

This forum is a great place to express a point of view from behind a mask or in some cases from behind a beard.  biggrin.gif  I hope that continues to be so.

No matter what people think, I AM biased towards AC. If they haven't figured that out by now, they can be fitted for a dunce cap and sat in the corner. So guessing at my identity is about as helpful as guessing Ralph Klein's weight. If he looks heavy, he is. What more do you need to know.

I've always said why I am what I am. I believe it is in Canada's interest to have a strong international airline - at least one major one, there is also room for other smaller ones. It is important that our international traffic not all flow through Chicago or Dallas. And so I strongly support AC. I have also been close - though not part of - this industry for a couple of decades now, and I like to have at least one forum where I can post my wisdom, for people to agree with and disagree with. But I am educating them nevertheless. Like my meat-in-the-baloney-sandwich analogy of last May, which bothers Westjetters no end to hear. I said that with SG attacking the low price end of the WJ scale and AC incentivizing the high end of the scale in so many ways, WJ has placed them in a constraining and perhaps uneviable position, like the meat in a foot-long sub. Westjetter hate to hear that, and the reason they hate it is that nothing in the past several months has proven me wrong. In fact, events are tending to prove me right. So they will crap all over me on occasion, especially when I poke a little fun at them, but the fact is, my analysis is cutting a little too close to the bone for comfort. But just wait until next year.

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Yeah Rattler, there's a healthy dollop of truth in that... but what's in a name? (or a beard?) What's it matter whether or not we work for Milton or Clive or anyone in between?... we posts our points and they speak for themselves... If we're biased, so be it... that will come out in our comments, for all to see.

.... the guy behind this beard may be someone else tonight... something someone put in his glass. tongue.gif ...if I could change my handle, I might be "Chuck" right now... I think. ... or maybe "Gronin' Mitchell", a grizzly old rum drinkin', cigarrette smokin', blues singin' grump.

now where'd I put my mojo? cool.gif

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No matter what people think, I AM biased towards AC. If they haven't figured that out by now, they can be fitted for a dunce cap and sat in the corner. So guessing at my identity is about as helpful as guessing Ralph Klein's weight. If he looks heavy, he is. What more do you need to know.

Right on, right on, right on... Now that's straight up... ain't no use messin' with them apples.

What is, just is, brothers... once you put the music to it, th'ain't no way to change it. cool26.gif

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AC generates revenue from many sources, many more than WJ, which in turn completes the whole picture does it not ??

I'm not disagreeing that WestJet has a tough winter but don't doubt the sources of revenue. Just a few are: 400 DEW bridges for Southwest in the works, all of which give a an almost pigish royalty to WestJet. RNP is being marketed to a lot of sources as well, airports and airlines. Our 300% increase in Charter flying also gives just a bit of a cusion to WestJet's winter too.

All just info so you have the 'whole' picture of both sides.

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I'm not disagreeing that WestJet has a tough winter but don't doubt the sources of revenue. Just a few are: 400 DEW bridges for Southwest in the works, all of which give a an almost pigish royalty to WestJet. RNP is being marketed to a lot of sources as well, airports and airlines. Our 300% increase in Charter flying also gives just a bit of a cusion to WestJet's winter too.

All just info so you have the 'whole' picture of both sides.

Thanks for the info, but that seems to be a longer term stream No ??

As for the RNP, is this proprietary ?? I thought because there was no special equipment involved it was kinda like an ETOPS development sort of thing ??

Or is there a special database involved ??

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Thanks for the info, but that seems to be a longer term stream No ??

As for the RNP, is this proprietary ?? I thought because there was no special equipment involved it was kinda like an ETOPS development sort of thing ??

Or is there a special database involved ??

There was a lot of work put in specific to the 737NG for Canada... many airports have received a professionally made DVD showing the capability if they wish to buy the technology.

It's proprietary work, just like the Live TV STC that many other carriers are looking at now... oh wait, there's another source of coin that I let slip.

Clive may say a little too much some times, but he and his team know how to make cash....

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There was a lot of work put in specific to the 737NG for Canada... many airports have received a professionally made DVD showing the capability if they wish to buy the technology.

It's proprietary work, just like the Live TV STC that many other carriers are looking at now... oh wait, there's another source of coin that I let slip.

Clive may say a little too much some times, but he and his team know how to make cash....

A couple more questions come to mind. I am not quite sure I understand this completely.

What would an airport buy ?? There is no ground equipment is there ??

I see a limited benefit for an airline (the technology is great, but in order to use it efficiently you need alot of help from ATC to leave you alone and do your thing), but what exactly does an airport gain from this ??

Does this apply to airports without current IFR approaches or is this an overlay of some sort ??

Thanks

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I'm not disagreeing that WestJet has a tough winter but don't doubt the sources of revenue. Just a few are: 400 DEW bridges for Southwest in the works, all of which give a an almost pigish royalty to WestJet. RNP is being marketed to a lot of sources as well, airports and airlines. Our 300% increase in Charter flying also gives just a bit of a cusion to WestJet's winter too.

All just info so you have the 'whole' picture of both sides.

I'm glad you have a few cushions, but we're not talking mega dollars. However, fuel cost is up mega-dollars, and yields are coming under extreme pressure as up to four airlines fly some domestic routes. And just wait until next year when a new word becomes the buzz in the industry: Fragmentation. As three and four carriers fragment markets, something has got to give. I believe AC clearly understands this from both the offensive and defensive perspectives and is preparing for it. How will others adapt?

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I'm glad you have a few cushions, but we're not talking mega dollars. However, fuel cost is up mega-dollars, and yields are coming under extreme pressure as up to four airlines fly some domestic routes. And just wait until next year when a new word becomes the buzz in the industry: Fragmentation. As three and four carriers fragment markets, something has got to give. I believe AC clearly understands this from both the offensive and defensive perspectives and is preparing for it. How will others adapt?

I've simply tried to point out that WestJet does have other forms of revenue... just as Air Canada has.

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Thanks read that and it seems to be similiar to what was released when it was approved. FI did a nice article on RNP as well.

I am still a little confused as to what WJ is planning on selling of this technology ?? Also wondering what an airport would purchase and what benefit an airport would get ??

I am all for advances in technology, and here comes the big BUT, in this case it seems to be contingent on getting help from our friends in ATC.

The article says this will save WJ 60 nm going into YXX, BUT that is only traffic permitting and ATC allowing it to happen.

I need only point out the famous FMS arrivals and how they were heralded as the end all and be all to help save money by increasing efficiencies during descent and approach. They are only as useful as the controller working the sector.

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dagger:

Can you elaborate on fragmentation and what it will do to the market?

Thanks in advance.

Jeff

P.S. The new posting guidelines should put an end to the attempted "outings".

I was afraid somebody was going to ask. Well, I might as well put out the short version now and the long version next year when it matters more. The short version is that fragmentation occurs when too many airlines put too many flights with too much capacity into one route. One is monopoly, two is competition, but three is a crowd and four is insane. When you have to many carriers and too much capacity, they start cutting up a finite number of passengers too many ways. They fragment the market. And because everybody sells one-way seats, customers can mix and match, so the fact that one airline might have a better schedule than the other is not really relevant. You then start looking at the amount of seats per carrier.

Let's take one example: Toronto/Hamilton - Moncton

We now have four carriers on that route. AC, CJ, SG and WS. Each carrier has a rationale for sticking in this.

AC - We were there first, we are an international airline, we have regular customers in Moncton or going to Moncton, and we are the business travel airline. We can't get out.

WS - We want to be the premier national airline, and we need to maintain a comprehensive network. We have western based customers who want to go to New Brunswick. And if we pull out of routes like Toronto-Moncton, won't we face the same phenomenon in many more markets?

CJ - We're the home team of the Maritimes. People love us here. We have credibility. If we can't make a go of Moncton-Toronto, we have to wonder where we can gain traction in this country.

SG - Lots of francophones here in Moncton, and we have a pretty good network now they can plug into. We can always throw F-100s on this route, and stand our grand.

They can't all be right!

So a number of scenarios begin to appear

-Everybody loses money indefinitely

-One or two carriers exit the market (drop route or go bankrupt)

-Carriers pare their capacity to the minimum just to say they have not quit on Moncton (though in reality they have...)

Until somebody drops out, the best strategy is downgauging. Assuming you can.

-AC holds in three frequencies by using CRJ-100s.

-WS offers one frequency from YHM and one from YYZ (Is that what is used to offer a couple of years ago from YHM? Or were there more flights?).

-Jetsgo has one frequency.

-Canjet has one daily frequency.

So it's pretty hard for anyone to downgauge here. You are talking over 700 seats a day in the winter schedule for these airlines. I'm guessing that in winter, this market can handle about half that. (Keep in mind AC also flies to Montreal and Halifax, so some transcon connecting traffic can flow through those points, too.)

AC's gauge is probably ideal. They get a 3x daily spread with 50 seats per flight. They might want to upgauge on the first flight of the day when they get a 75-seater. Putting business class on that route would be a net plus, IMHO.

Now, given that everybody is getting additional aircraft next year, you wonder how many more examples like Moncton-Toronto are there going to be, and how much tougher is it going to get if you don't have options to deal with a market fragmenting 3-4 ways. What does that do to the margins and yields of airlines? What can they sustain? Can they justify the cost of ground ops and marketing (advertising, sales staff) if they have one flight a day with, say, 50 passengers?

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