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AC amends cliam


Flapsforty

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"WestJet responded to the revised claim Friday by saying it doesn't believe the Air Canada website contained confidential information and the information is available through many sources including counting passengers at airports"

Pretty lame defence saying pax can be counted. By the way, why didn't they call them guests ???

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Guest directlaw

Kip,s link gives the impression that the lawsuit has expanded to include 5 more defendants including Clive himself. It doesn't refer at all to dropping portions of the original suite.

Anyone have more info?

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Kip,s link gives the impression that the lawsuit has expanded to include 5 more defendants including Clive himself. It doesn't refer at all to dropping portions of the original suite.

Anyone have more info?

That is the way that I read it too. AC has dropped nothing, just added a few more names to the suit.

Quite a list:

In addition to Beddoe, the new defendants are:

-Scott Butler, WestJet's director for strategic planning, who reported to Hill and to whom Lafond reported;

-Donald Bell, WestJet's chief operating officer;

-Bill Lamberton, WestJet's vice-president of marketing until he left the company in November 2003 and;

-Brenda Trockstad, WestJet's director of commercial and schedule planning.

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It will be very interesting to see what Bill has to say if he ever gets to the witness stand. My sources tell me that Bill left over differences between him and Clive. I have a great deal of respect for Bill and I think that he will deliver the straight goods on the stand if pushed to.

Interestingly enough, I read an article written in September in Canadian Business on this where they asked 5 analysts what they thought Westjet should do about this. It was overwhelmingly thought that they (WS) should have just quietly made this go away through a negotiated settlement. Hardly looks like that is possible now (at least the quiet part)

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It will be very interesting to see what Bill has to say if he ever gets to the witness stand. My sources tell me that Bill left over differences between him and Clive. I have a great deal of respect for Bill and I think that he will deliver the straight goods on the stand if pushed to.

Interestingly enough, I read an article written in September in Canadian Business on this where they asked 5 analysts what they thought Westjet should do about this. It was overwhelmingly thought that they (WS) should have just quietly made this go away through a negotiated settlement. Hardly looks like that is possible now (at least the quiet part)

Clive would never have gone for that idea.

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It was overwhelmingly thought that they (WS) should have just quietly made this go away through a negotiated settlement.  Hardly looks like that is possible now (at least the quiet part)

If AC's main intent is to discredit WS in the public's eye, then AC will not be willing to settle. They will keep it going for as long as possible. End result - WS and AC burn through mucho $$ and the lawyers get rich.

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When this thing first broke out I was a big proponent of the "let's make this go away as quickly as possible" camp. The truth is , is that AC would NEVER have negotiated. Their MO is to throw as much crap at the wall as they can and to see what might stick and in the meantime drag it all out as long as possible. Some of their crap would not stick , hence the withdrawl of some of their damage claims.

A very effective strategy , I might add. Dirty but effective.

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Air Canada also said in its court documents filed Friday in the Ontario Superior Court of Justice in Toronto that it's seeking for WestJet to "disgorge" about $170 million it allegedly gained by using the confidential information.

In addition, Montreal-based Air Canada is seeking $50 million in additional damages from its Calgary-based rival.

If I remember right the original lawsuit was for 220 million. My math tells me it is still 220 million. What part has AC withdrawn on. I just don't see it in this article.

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The truth is , is that AC would NEVER have negotiated. Their MO is to throw as much crap at the wall as they can and to see what might stick and in the meantime drag it all out as long as possible. Some of their crap would not stick , hence the withdrawl of some of their damage claims.

A very effective strategy , I might add. Dirty but effective.

Attempting to paint AC as the bad guy, in any way whatsoever in this episode, is absolutely laughable.

Has ethical behaviour really become so hard to comprehend?

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Sambucca posted this in another thread..........Air Canada proposes to significantly narrow its damages claim and remove its claim for damages for intentional interference with economic relations , breach of confidence , breach of contract and breach of fiduciary duty. Air Canada also proposes to drop its claim for loss of goodwill

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No mention of AC pulling back it's claim in the Globe article here,

WestJet chief aware of spying: Air Canada

By BRENT JANG

From Saturday's Globe and Mail

Air Canada alleged Friday that a spy scandal in the country's airline industry goes all the way to the top at WestJet Airlines Ltd., pointing directly at WestJet chief executive officer Clive Beddoe.

In April, Montreal-based Air Canada accused WestJet of hacking into a confidential website to steal sensitive information, but it didn't name Mr. Beddoe when it launched its $220-million lawsuit against the Calgary-based carrier.

But Friday, Air Canada stepped up its legal fight against WestJet by adding Mr. Beddoe, who has distanced himself from the mounting controversy, to its growing list of defendants who allegedly took part in corporate espionage.

Air Canada introduced an e-mail which it says shows Mr. Beddoe received confidential information stolen from the airline.

On Friday night, WestJet said Air Canada's allegations involving five new defendants are “ill-founded and will not succeed,” adding that “Air Canada's real motive in its lawsuit is not to recover damages but to distract the market and discredit WestJet.”

Air Canada introduced various exhibits that it says strengthen its lawsuit against WestJet. It included an e-mail dated June 13, 2003, written by Mark Hill, a WestJet co-founder who resigned from the discount carrier four months ago. Mr. Hill copied his memo to Mr. Beddoe and four others then at WestJet, now added as defendants.

In a separate lawsuit, Jetsgo Corp. of Montreal is also accusing WestJet of spying.

In his e-mail memo, Mr. Hill “provides an analysis of Air Canada's passenger loads from Calgary to Vancouver” from May 3 to June 11 last year, Air Canada's lawyer said in an affidavit that is part of its amended statement of claim in the Ontario Superior Court.

The memo contains detailed information about Air Canada flights between Vancouver and Calgary, including a comment that “it is very interesting that AC 200 YVR-YYC at 7:00 a.m. has 124 seats and a l/f [load factor] of 66.5 per cent.”

Load factor refers to the proportion of available seats filled.

Mr. Hill's memo notes that two Air Canada flights had more seats booked than WestJet's competing two flights. “We might want to loosen up the buckets on those two flights,” wrote Mr. Hill, who was then WestJet vice-president of strategic planning.

Air Canada alleged in the new court filing Friday that Mr. Hill's recommendation to “loosen up the buckets” referred to WestJet's strategy of “lowering fares to attract passengers away from Air Canada.”

Air Canada accuses Mr. Hill of using the access code of a former Air Canada employee, Jeffrey Lafond, to hack into a special reservation website for Air Canada employees and retirees.

“With any luck, we'll be able to automate these reports... this took forever to compile,” Mr. Hill wrote in his memo.

In the new court documents, Air Canada alleges Mr. Hill “looked forward to automating his reports on Air Canada's route and time specific passenger load information.”

In previous court filings, WestJet has distanced itself from Mr. Hill.

And Mr. Beddoe apologized three months ago for “this event having occurred,” but indicated he wasn't aware of the alleged spying activity.Friday's amended statement of claim also includes an exhibit that Air Canada describes as a handwritten note that shows Mr. Beddoe attended a WestJet executive meeting last year when Mr. Hill allegedly presented a CD containing Air Canada's load factors.

Air Canada had hired private investigators last spring to search Mr. Hill's trash in the Victoria suburb of Oak Bay. Air Canada, which said in court filings that its internal papers were found shredded in his trash, later hired a U.S. firm to digitally reconstruct the documents.

Jetsgo launched its $50-million lawsuit against WestJet last month after it said it belatedly found out some of its confidential documents also ended up in Mr. Hill's trash.

Jetsgo chief executive officer Michel Leblanc said three weeks ago that while his airline has yet to file supporting evidence to show the involvement of Mr. Hill and Mr. Beddoe, “we're not on a fishing expedition. Far, far from it.”

Besides Mr. Beddoe, the other defendants added Friday to Air Canada's lawsuit were: Scott Butler, WestJet director of strategic planning, who reported to Mr. Hill; Donald Bell, WestJet co-chief operating officer; Bill Lamberton, WestJet vice-president of marketing until he left the airline in November, 2003; and Brenda Trockstad, WestJet director of commercial and schedule planning.

None of the allegations have been proved in court.

WestJet has denied wrongdoing in its statement of defence and counterclaim to Air Canada's lawsuit launched in April.

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Jetsgo chief executive officer Michel Leblanc said three weeks ago that while his airline has yet to file supporting evidence to show the involvement of Mr. Hill and Mr. Beddoe, “we're not on a fishing expedition. Far, far from it.”

biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif LMAO

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"Has ethical behaviour really become that hard to comprehend"

Give me a break. This has been beaten to death. I have said in the past and said as much in my post , Westjet was wrong ethically (as for legally , I have no idea) and that we should face up to that and pay the piper. My sense is that a lot of WestJetters feel the same.

As far as comprehension goes , is it so hard for you to understand that AC is using this to inflict the maximum damage they possibly can. Settling out of court would not attain this goal.If you don't believe they have hired proffesionals to advise and assist them in this damage campaign , well , all I can say is I find that hard to comprehend.

Having said all this , if the shoe were on the other foot , would WestJet have done the same? My guess is... absolutely.

What ticks me off is the holier than thou attitude.

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Guest rattler

From Canada Press today:

Among other things, the amended claim says Hill, Beddoe, Butler, Bell, Lamberton, and Trockstad "intended to and did personally benefit'' from their misuse of the plaintiff's confidential information by way of increases to their salaries, bonuses and the value of their WestJet stock options.

WestJet CEO newly named in Air Canada lawsuit

Canadian Press

TORONTO — Air Canada claimed for the first time Friday that WestJet CEO Clive Beddoe knew his airline had gained access to sensitive competitive information about Air Canada's operations through a confidential website.

Beddoe and four others were added to the list of defendants in an ongoing lawsuit that claims WestJet gained access to a confidential website for current and former Air Canada employees.

Air Canada also said in its court documents filed Friday in the Ontario Superior Court of Justice in Toronto that it's seeking for WestJet to "disgorge'' about $170 million it allegedly gained by using the confidential information.

In addition, Montreal-based Air Canada is seeking $50 million in additional damages from its Calgary-based rival.

The claims have yet to be decided in court.

WestJet responded to the revised claim Friday by saying it doesn't believe the Air Canada website contained confidential information and the information is available through many sources including counting passengers at airports.

The Calgary-based airline also claims that Air Canada's losses attributed to WestJet are due to its own mismanagement and high cost structure, not from any use of information from the website.

"It is WestJet's view that Air Canada's claim against WestJet and these individuals is ill founded and will not succeed. WestJet fully supports those named in this amended statement of claim and will defend these claims vigorously on their behalf,'' WestJet said in a statement.

Air Canada has claimed that one of its former employees, now working for WestJet, had access to a website that provided current and former employees with information about seating availability on its flights.

Air Canada further alleges that WestJet created an automated system for accessing the website in order to gather information that could provide it will a competitive information.

The amended claim says that in addition to the original defendants, former WestJet vice-president Mark Hill and WestJet analyst Jeffrey Lafond, that other individuals at WestJet were in the know about the scheme.

In addition to Beddoe, the new defendants are:

Scott Butler, WestJet's director for strategic planning, who reported to Hill and to whom Lafond reported;

Donald Bell, WestJet's chief operating officer;

Bill Lamberton, WestJet's vice-president of marketing until he left the company in November 2003 and;

Brenda Trockstad, WestJet's director of commercial and schedule planning.

Among other things, the amended claim says Hill, Beddoe, Butler, Bell, Lamberton, and Trockstad "intended to and did personally benefit'' from their misuse of the plaintiff's confidential information by way of increases to their salaries, bonuses and the value of their WestJet stock options.

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As far as comprehension goes , is it so hard for you to understand that AC is using this to inflict the maximum damage they possibly can. Settling out of court would not attain this goal.If you don't believe they have hired proffesionals to advise and assist them in this damage campaign , well , all I can say is I find that hard to comprehend.

Having said all this , if the shoe were on the other foot , would WestJet have done the same? My guess is... absolutely.

You condemn AC for what you perceive to be the real agenda, but then say if WJ were in that position it would likely do the same. Interesting.

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Cargo Agent

Interesting is it? I call it reality and don't confuse it with condoning the practice on either side. It's just the way it is. I just get sick of this we are better than you attitude coming from both sides. This is business and it is extremely naieve to think AC or Westjet are any different in that respect.

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Sambucca,

No, I don't think you deserve "a break"... You claimed AC was doing something dirty here, and that's nonsense. That's why my ethical behaviour comment.

Having been around a while, and having watched the demise of many an airline in that time, I can say with some level of certainty that I don't think AC is deserving of any "holier than" anyone status... However, in this instance, WJ appears to be the sole owner of the "dirty" label. Any attempt to paint AC as the bad guy here is ridiculous. ...and all feeble attempts at deflection come across as pathetic displays of denial.

...and that, sir, is merely my best attempt at an ever so humble, not better than anyone, opinion.

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Mitch

Don't change the subject. The issue was with what WestJet did in the first place. I have conceded and agreed that it was not.

As far as the dirty statement , maybe a little strong but am I to conclude that you think it is perfectly acceptable to level charges every which way in the courts and the media and reap real public and investor damage only to withdraw the charges later because you havn't got a leg to stand on? This ploy is as old as lawyers and courts have been around and it is working quite nicely. How do you feel about that? Are you proud of what your company is doing?

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CA..holier than though??? I have to say having worked at AC...WJ employees are alot further down to earth than you think. I think WJ has deflated the AC balloon alittle(and it hurts) and given a reality check to those there. I think it has helped you overall. Anyone think it is ironic that AC put out the amendment on profit sharing day??? just another true colour of the big red machine IMHO. I don't care about the lawsuit. Life goes on. We were born to die..living inbetween is the hard part.

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