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Air Canada is goin down if...


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Guest Marion Vanderlubbe

Vancouver was opened to US access at three times the rate it was in Toronto. By the third year all restrictions had been lifted at Vancouver yet US access to Toronto was the same as Vancouver had experienced in the first year.

James Blanchard authored the treaty, he points out in his book "Behind the Embassy Door" how the implementation was altered at the request of Air Canada which feared it could not compete with the Americans.

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Do you realize how times you have said me and I in your posts. God I hope that we don't end up in liquidation, however if we do, I will do allright. I have 20 years left, you on the other hand old man, will have nothing. Nada. So before you spout off about how we owe you something, maybe you better realize that it will be us "young bucks" who will keep this company going so that you can even draw a pension. Now go back and play some bridge in your summer home and if you want respect...well behave like an elder statesman and true pilot and earn it!!!

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Guest 6to8mos

I remember before the implimentation of open skies of being concerned that Canadian carriers would not be able to compete with the big US carriers. AC had done very well until the Liberal Gov subsidised US feeders with a massive CRJ loan program. Lets by Brazilian, and never vote Liberal.

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I am not trying to preach from on high, but (there is always a 'but' :-) ) wishing the worst for someone isn't energy well spent.

As an observer it seems that this crisis brings out the best and worst in people on this forum.

Anonymity makes it easier to be critical and judgemental of others. Everyone's fear of the unknown future sometimes leads to short fuses. Responses can instantly be posted without, perhaps, ever fully understanding the last persons thought.

Everyone's situation is different, some are more desperate than others. I believe we would all be better served if we cut each other a little slack under the circumstances.

I hope this time next year, the biggest crisis we discuss is the risk of the last Canadian team being ousted from the playoffs.

(B)

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The treaty was written to favour Canadian air carriers not just Air Canada. CAIL could and did take advantage of the treaty until the AA pilots objected to all of the code shares and this then restricted what CAIL would/could fly.

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Guest floatrr

I...My...You... I... 30 Years...Riding coat tails... blah,blah,blah. What you need to realize is that your future depends on what rmains after you retire. And there will be nothing left if the "Fat Cats" don't take a hefty pay cut. Don't try and tell me that a 20% pay cut across the board is fair when some are earning six figures and others can barely pay the rent and car payment. So get of your lily pad you old frog and take a good swim.

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Guest floatrr

I...My...You... I... 30 Years...Riding coat tails... blah,blah,blah. What you need to realize is that your future depends on what remains after you retire. And there will be nothing left if the "Fat Cats" don't take a hefty pay cut. Don't try and tell me that a 20% pay cut across the board is fair when some are earning six figures and others can barely pay the rent and car payment. So get of your lily pad you old frog and take a good swim.

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Guest Marion Vanderlubbe

Two separate issues. Canadian started code-sharing with American before Open Skies existed. The point was the implementation schedule and how it came to be, not the treaty itself.

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Guest Airmail

Gurk: Don't kid yourself, an insolvent AC would be bad for all AC employees. If your unwilling to do it (sacrifice) for people like Longtimer (frankly, I could give a $h1t about his ilk), do it for yourself.

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Because that's how much you're overpaid! And by the way, those "nice pay checks" were negotiated at the expence of SKILLED employees, not bag-smashers! I'm not surprised that you're willing to give up 20% of your pay at this time. I, however, would rather not. You see, when I'm working on an autopilot or a navigation problem on an aircraft, I'd rather not be distracted by the fact that a bunch of unskilled labour is riding on my coat-tails and dragging down my wages!!!

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Guest McChicken

It's pretty easy to see why you've got everyone pissing in your cornflakes with the way you're approaching the subject (self-centred). Isn't this about everyone involved working together to save the rapidly sinking ship?

But to my real point here........is a 20% pay cut all it's going to take? i think not. i think the biggest thing with AC across the board is the overly protected working rules and the attitude towards your jobs. time to be the person you told your kids to be and fly in the face of management with enthusiasm and positive attitude flowing. and for pilots and f/a's, lose the massive reserve coverage, cover with skeleton amounts and be willing to occasionally work on your days off to help the situation. reduction of the workforce through retirement could lower the costs, while a lack of hiring will mean money saved on training and off the high end wages. and what about equipment freezes? 5 year freeze maybe? it'd save a ton of dough, think about it.

as for retirement, nobody owes you anything. you fought for your contract for YOU and not some unborn punk, remember that. that's why i've chosen a different path as i saw these big protected pensions disappearing years ago. saw it with my dad with his retirement back in 97 and decided to choose a path away from that. but for all of you, i hope you can pull it together and make it work in the long run.

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Guest Go Around

If I was a creditor making a yeah or nay decision the attitude of the unions during CCAA would be very much on my mind. Imagine the attitude after the papers are signed.

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Guest 6to8mos

Remember we made a profit third quarter last year with the broken model. Rid ourselves of excessive tax, and NAV grabs, Taj Mahal airport fees, wage cuts, productivity improvements, lease relief, bigger RJs at mainline......giddyup..

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Guest Go Around

I hope you guys do make it. Competition is a good thing and liquidation never benefits an industry. That being said, I don't believe you're third quarter profit was an operating profit so it does not indicate any success at all of the broken model.

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In the words of Monty Python, "What a senseless waste of human life".

Good night old man, and yes I will give 20% or whatever it takes. Enjoy your Metamucil and Viagra, you sound like you need to get regular and get "it" soon, real soon.

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LTV,let me give you an education on the IAM, Ritchie recently had a meting in YYZ with his cronies, in tha meeting he displayed a graph with a line through the middle showing industry average, he plotted maintenance on that graph and it was plotted just below average, then he plotted station on the graph at it was way above average.The killer of the meeting was Ritchie's comment of how since maintenance was already below average, he was willng to reduce them further in an effort to keep the station world far above.His logice for this, was that he can posture how he managed to keep the larger of the two groups above average in pay!Well LTV, enjoy the ride, it is about to come to an end, CAMA will be submitting to the CIRB with in 14 days, and since AC has publicly stated that it wants separate bargaining units, it will add more clout to our submission to allow a representational vote.

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Guest floatrr

"In fact,I believe he was a CDN employee, making his years of service at AC less than mine. LTV should be thankful that he wasn't on the street with nothin about 4 years ago. "

You are no better than the one you are speaking of with that remark. Get over the AC CDN thing. It really doesn't matter at this point does it?

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Guest M. McRae

EVERYBODY KNOWS

(from the album 'I'M YOUR MAN')

Everybody knows that the dice are loaded

Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed

Everybody knows that the war is over

Everybody knows the good guys lost

Everybody knows the fight was fixed

The poor stay poor, the rich get rich

That's how it goes

Everybody knows

Everybody knows that the boat is leaking

Everybody knows that the captain lied

Everybody got this broken feeling

Like their father or their dog just died

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I never said in any of my posts that maintenance was under-paid.However all i hear from you guys is how the rampies are over-paid.I suggested a 10% pay cut across the board and all the slagging started.If you guys wanna dish it out,not a problem but prepared to take it.Thats all i got to say.

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