Jump to content

Still no buyer for JAZZ?


Tally-ho

Recommended Posts

Dagger, you include ZIP with WJ and Jetsgo and CJ. ZIP is Air Canada with nicely colored lipstick;pink, orange, blue, and green. It's still a high cost airline in disguise. It's flown by ACPA pilots, maintained by ACTS engineers and passenger services supplied by CUPE and Air Canada. The only lowcost thing about it is it's F/A's. How is it that ZIP was not mentioned in the media when the discussion of where the money was lost within the Air Canada family? All that was focused on was money losing JAZZ.

Don't tell me that ZIP is a seperate company!!!!! They're not and we all know what is going on here. It's called job protection for ACPA at all costs and how they have cornered almost all the flying whether it makes money or not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dagger

You do seem a little sensitive today. As always I'm wondering who you might be? Based on your reactions to certain stimulus I've gotta believe that you're plugged in somewhere close to AC management (friends with?).

For instance, you suggest:

"I've sat by for months now listening to this drivel, "The regionals always made money, the regionals always made money, yadda yadda blah, blah."

It's not drivel, in most cases. AO routinely provided huge profits to AC, ANO was second and AA a distant third. Unfortunately, ABC generally suffered with dismal results. I would suggest that all the regionals were hammered by AC's business model. In other words, AC has always failed to capitalize on its strengths. At one time we at the regionals enjoyed a profit share program. It was great for the employee's and motivated them considerably. We were actually told by our President that the plan was cancelled because the AC employees were not able to achieve profits and so, not entitled to share in a positive result! I guess their higher wages and benefits across the board weren't enough? Instead of profits at AC there were losses. Instead of tightening the screws management continually rewarded the AC employee group with higher wages and benefit plans. Only government behaves this way, not private and free enterprise! It's a small wonder we're against the wall today and BTW, why were the regional results always hidden in the AC reports until the present. I'd suggest that because of the AC P Act the BOD is not responsible to anyone other than themselves. By burying the regional results the AC BOD avoided a demand from the general shareholders for an improved AC business model.

You also say:

"It's a stupid argument to judge the present or the future by the past. The world changes."

Agreed however, there isn't going to be a future unless someone has learned from the mistakes of the past!

You say:

"Westjet didn't exist when the regionals were supposedly profitable. Not that AirBC was profitable in competition with Canadian Regional, mind you,".

IMO this is a fair statement however, you go on to say "or that Air Alliance was EVER profitable".

AA was created to fill the political vacum that existed between ANO & AO. It's general profit picture represented the size and potential of the market it served. By design it had little chance of achieving any higher level of performance.

You then postulate:

"Air Ontario and Air Nova had weaker competition and probably were profitable. For all I know some of their routes could still be profitable".

AO competed head to head with CRA for years and always maintained the higher market share until such time as CRA vacated the market entirely.

You then say:

"What you had all better realize is that Westjet is flying regional routes that used to be Air Ontario's bread and butter. A route like Toronto-Sudbury is a good example. Today, it may be a loss-maker. Also, when WJ starts flying West from Windsor, Thunder Bay and London, Ont, it forces a response with non-stop jets (Zip, Tango). The formerly profitable Dash-8 service is no longer profitable because of loss of traffic to these new direct services. The world changes."

You are right, the world does change. Unfortunately Jazz has never been allowed to develop in a manner that could address the changing market. Isn't it a little ironic that after several years of WJ bashing the AC group is now trying to remodel itself after WJ?

You say:

"Canjet is flying some Air Nova routes".

They certainly are! They're picking up the gravy routes where they can successfully compete against Jazz due to Jazz's inability to offer a competitive product.

Further you comment:

"You can't match Westjet's seat-mile costs on a Dash 8 or even an RJ or BAe-146. Not if you pilots worked for free!"

Great observation however, if the parent corp had an ounce of business sense Jazz would have been flying 73's or their equivallent for a lower seat mile cost than WJ. Instead, AC has chosen the Tango & ZIP model.

You say:

"Today, fuel is higher, the security surcharge and other fees have cost regional carriers a lot of money and the discount competition is eating into some of Jazz's formerly profitable routes. Fuel will come down and the surcharge deterrent may ease, but the competition isn't going away, it's only going to grow."

You're right! If Jazz isn't sold or the model changed Jazz will die and AC right along with it!

You comment:

"Yes, new ownership might also help Jazz financially, but it is not the panacea you all make it out to be and Air Canada ownership is not the millstone you make it out to be. You cannot be Air Canada's feeder and also a competitor. And there are not many jet routes in Canada that you don't serve now where you could fly as an independent and not compete with Air Canada (or WJ or CJ or Jetsgo)."

We at Jazz would love to be able to compete and, AC is a millstone around our neck! They are the ones that can't compete domestically and should get the hell out of the market! AC should be a long haul wide body flag carrier! BTW we already compete with AC. As I've said before, AC destroyed AO's Rapidair Metro operation simply because it was competing with their superior (tongue in cheek) YYZ product. AO was gaining an ever increasing market share and providing AC with a much greater return on investment than AC could ever hope to achieve with their YYZ product! The people (customers) were voting with their feet and chose the product they wanted. AC chose to deny the customer to prop up its YYZ operations numbers. Someday a competitor will appear at YTZ and effectively kill not only Jazz's YTZ operation but the AC YYZ one as well.

And finally you claim:

"Reality is always a lot more complex, and while it is comforting to have a scapegoat, shedding the scapegoat isn't going to assure you a better future. Before plunging into the unknown, some of you may want to get a better grip on TODAY'S reality and stop living in a past that cannot be recreated."

This is a comment that should be squarely directed at AC. Remember, they hold the high bar and are the ones now chasing the low bar. Jazz doesn't have a prayer without the millstone selling it or fixing the broken model from top to bottom.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



{It's a small wonder we're against the wall today and BTW, why were the regional results always hidden in the AC reports until the present. I'd suggest that because of the AC P Act the BOD is not responsible to anyone other than themselves. By burying the regional results the AC BOD avoided a demand from the general shareholders for an improved AC business model. }


I'm not really interested in all of the reasons why AC "buried" the regional results. One big reason was that the competition didn't break things out. Also, you can get an exaggerated result depending on your pro-rates that could fuel union demands. I am sure there were other reasons, but again, it's water long passed under the bridge and alluding to profitability in a totally different market - preSept 11, pre-security surcharges, pre-Westjet - is a mugg's game.

Until accounting rules changed a few years ago, they didn't break out any part of their system the way they do today.

Moreover, a shareholder wants to know about the bottom line. All a shrewd manager has to point to is the overall profitability of the company and then explain away any sectoral losses as necessary for the overall network and the overall profitability of the company.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even Westjet allows some routes (not many) to lose money for strategic, network purposes. Do you hear any shareholder complaining? It's the overall bottom line that counts. Can Jazz do better? Sure. But if AC were making $500 million profit do you think any shareholder would care a rat's rear about Jazz's losses?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"if AC were making $500 million profit do you think any shareholder would care a rat's rear about Jazz's losses?"

Probably not but, AC isn't making anything and the shareholders do care about that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Yea, so, what's your point" so you are basically saying your are part of the problem rather than the solution, you agree Zip is losing money, but hey as long as you get paid who cares right!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest leftbase

Nice. (sarcastically)

Gee, and you wonder why a couple Georgian guys like baiting the Jazzers...probably not so funny as Regional gets squeezed out of existence by WJ on the jet side and GGN/CMA on the prop side..

Oh, and scoping them? For CMA at least...no can do..

btw, don't work for either one, but know too many good people flying the Beeyatch to have you malign them without responding!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.



×
×
  • Create New...