wjaer Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I am geeting a little sick of people like Saymach# bad mouthing our compensation package. It seems that those complaining about what our wages are are those who don't work with us. Let me hear from WestJetters that are happy with what we make. You guys just don't get that we are happy and motivated. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I wouldn’t worry about it and why do you need more Westjetters to reinforce what everyone who reads this forum knows??? Actually I have not heard one Westjetter say they did not like their present employment. “You guys just don’t get ……….” Not really true, the majority of members know that for a fact. I think you are overreacting to a few disgruntled folks that, perhaps, envy what you have. I wouldn’t lose sleep over it…relax and enjoy the ride !!!! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schooner69 Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Ya know what I think Kip? The language and syntax of "wjaer" is similar to that of another twit up with which I have to put on a couple of other aviation websites. Maybe just a pot stirrer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjaer Posted March 10, 2003 Author Share Posted March 10, 2003 Kip: I have read your posts and this one was not intended for you. You have always been fair and I can respect your opinons. It was meant for everyone that is constantly complaining about how we have lowered the bar for them. We are quite happy. I am glad for a/c guys who are in the same boat and I wish them well. I just can't stand people who bash us because of their own insecurities. I just was reading earlier posts and I am getting a bit fed up with people slagging us for earning a living. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjaer Posted March 10, 2003 Author Share Posted March 10, 2003 I am Brand new to the forum. I did not know these were around until about two months ago. Sorry Schooner69! I guess I am a new pot stirrer. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFCON Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Welcome aboard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjaer Posted March 10, 2003 Author Share Posted March 10, 2003 Thank you...Glad to be here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GI-Joe Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Mr. Ulicki, WestJet (Amway) has definitely brainwashed you: Given the experience required to be considered for employment there, it is safe to say that even the most junior pilot has already been in the industry for some time. To accept remuneration in the neighborhood of $40000.00 to $50000.00 to fly a 737 is, basically, selling one’s self out. I have long been a proponent of establishing more realistic wages for the work we do, but pay scales such as the aforementioned are slave wages in today’s trying economy. As well, to attain the sought after million dollars you are all promised, so many factors have to fall exactly into place that you might as well bet on the horses – the odds are about the same. That being said, I am genuinely very pleased that you are happy there - high moral is something that not many other employees can brag about these days! So, if you enjoy working there as much as you say, ignore us naysayers and enjoy a great job. Who knows, you may have the 'last laugh.' G. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GI-Joe Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 WJAER, WestJet (Amway) has definitely brainwashed you: Given the experience required to be considered for employment there, it is safe to say that even the most junior pilot has already been in the industry for some time. To accept remuneration in the neighborhood of $40000.00 to $50000.00 to fly a 737 is, basically, selling one’s self out. I have long been a proponent of establishing more realistic wages for the work we do, but pay scales such as the aforementioned are slave wages in today’s trying economy. As well, to attain the sought after million dollars you are all promised, so many factors have to fall exactly into place that you might as well bet on the horses – the odds are about the same. That being said, I am genuinely very pleased that you are happy there - high moral is something that not many other employees can brag about these days! So, if you enjoy working there as much as you say, ignore us naysayers and enjoy a great job. Who knows, you may have the 'last laugh.' G. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ECB Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 For all you WestJetters out there. Take a look at those green slips put in your mailboxes this week. Its interesting to note the difference between whats on the bottom of the form and what folks like GI Joe think we make. I wouldn't be upset at the lack of understanding about our compensation in the industry. Its quite understandable why they may feel that way, theres no way around it, it is confusing, even to some WestJetters, just smile and enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Clumsy Lover Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 For the record, not all of us at AC think you are working below the bar. When ACPA and the company were negotiating the zip pay they went to WJ to talk about their pay structure and found the average captain at the time was making more than the DC-9 captains were at the mainline. This of course includes all the stock options and profit sharing... Now this figure could and will change with economic conditions but the point was they weren't making less they were just getting paid different. So for anyone who says they are lowering the bar maybe we should focus a little more on our own problems before we shoot our mouths off. All of course in MHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Toron1 Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Well I'm not sure if you split the infinitive on that tricky sentence! Leave the WestJetters alone, they are happy and I beleive more than content with their compensation. WestJet is not a perfect company and I'm sure has some employee problems but it seems that their employee group as a whole is very happy and proportionately much more so than Air Canada/Zip/Tango/Jazz employees. WestJet managements philosophy of putting employees first has proven its success and therefore unions will be non existent as long as this philosophy doesn't change. Should Air Canada follow the same managerial style then WestJet will have a major battle on their hands. I for one can't see that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Powick Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Rather a catchy, but not too flattering, MESSAGE header eh :) Probably true is some isolated cases because based on the odd post, one begins to question if there was any "thinking" put into the message prior to posting. Can hardly wait until someone runs with that one !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Toron1 Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 So what exactly does a first year F/O make at Air Canada, how about a second year F/O? I don't believe that WestJet employees have been asked to take pay cuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maranatha Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 GI Joe: "High moral is not something that many employees can brag about these days." Yer mixing yer metaphors, mate! I thought the discussion was about WestJet MORALE, not airline employees' morals. Cheers, IE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GI-Joe Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Hello Clumsy Lover, Thank you for the response and clarification. You stated "For the record, not all of us at AC think you are working below the bar. When ACPA and the company were negotiating the zip pay they went to WJ to talk about their pay structure and found the average captain at the time was making more than the DC-9 captains were at the mainline. This of course includes all the stock options and profit sharing... " I think that you hit the nail on the head: A WestJet F/O DOES make more than a starting F/O at most Canadian-based carriers and a WestJet captain COULD maybe make more than a DC-9 captain at Air Canada (although, I would find that hard to believe knowing several ex-DC-9 captains - including one of my best friends). However, although you mention that the WestJet captain's pay was including all the stock options, et cetera, you fail to include all the other very important details like number of days working per month; office days; no-pension plan... More importantly, if you thought that WestJet remuneration was fair, why then did you not copy their contract when negotiating the pay and working conditions at ZIP? After all, was ZIP not started in an attempt to cut into – if not destroy – WestJet's market? Maybe by starting with the same pay scale and working conditions as WestJet, but with the added support of a major carrier, you could have done so. I am being a little facetious to you, and I apologize for this. My original post was only trying to suggest that the ‘big winnings’ days of WestJet are over; to get the golden handshake worth one million dollars is almost unattainable now. As I alluded, and will now say for prosperity, I do envy the fact that every single person I know at WestJet seems content. Well, there is one that is not, but that is a different story… I have many friends at WestJet and I wish them – and all employees there – the best. G. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Clumsy Lover Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I guess I should have rephrased that header.... It should read GI-Joe doesn't think... But I guess I wasn't thinking when I wrote it (smily thing here) Cheers The Clumsy Lover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nozel Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I think the flyers amongst us have missed the boat er plane ... Its not the wages that are the cause of AC's problems, its the Customers Satisfaction! The customer does not care how much the pilot or FA or engineer earns but he does care about what he sees and feels, in short how he is treated during his trip. If he has a good eperience he'll be back.Treat him shabbily he won't and he'll let his friends know about it too. Once that little problem is addressed every thing else should fall into place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Clumsy Lover Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Hello Joe At the time they did make more than the DC-9 Captains at AC. That is a fact. So far as working conditions at WJ I'd be lying if I told you what they were cause I don't work there, however out of all my friends that do they seem to enjoy the conditions just fine. Sure everyone would like a few more days off per month but you will find certain conditions at any company which are less than ideal. Royal used to use the jump seat as the rest facility on augmented flight, AC does sim on days off etc.. Now maybe you are right, the big winning days are over at WJ, but they are also over at AC as well. The times they are a changin' but at least they are content as you say. All I was saying was that I was sick of hearing the old "WJ pay is bad argument..." They are well paid profesionals. They are just paid different thats all. There are a lot of other carriers in this country who operate Jet aircraft that don't pay nearly as well or have the quality of life that WJers have and no one mentions them. I for one wish that we at AC had the moral that WJ has through out our company. Maybe we could get the job done a little better if we did. CL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GI-Joe Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Thank you - how very true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ECB Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 I think the post by Clumsy Lover has it right. We are paid differently, not less. From my viewpoint the benefit of our system is that when times get tough, we all tighten our belts to avoid the downsizing and layoffs other carriers must face unless they go through negotiations and diligence with thier unions. In other words, we dont have to throw our young in the volcano to survive (unless things get really bad). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Are Kip and I the only ones who see the play on words this could bring? Oh well, I'm not evil so I'll let it pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GDR Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Well at least some do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest al bundy Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 heh wjaer, relax, sit back enjoy the value of the "NOW". Don't try to change people from the point of view you are reacting to. If you really are concerned about how people feel about wj than be sincere and unselfish. See the stress that is in the aviation world and offer some support. Go beyond yourself. Best of luck in the future to everyone. Bundy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest al bundy Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 ya that about says it all. It's a good confusion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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