Guest WA777 Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 Which AC union or employee group is ready to step up to the plate?.....everyone wants everyone else to go first....Who really has the courage to show true leadership? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipped Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 I don't think the right quesstion is being asked here. Lets see some leadership and courage from senior management. That is all I hear unionized groups saying. Co-operation will then come from the worker bees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WA777 Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 IMO...if mangement is truly sincere it should be management that shows the way..... a dramatic "across the board"....but does anyone have that kind of courage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WA777 Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 You're right....I added the PS as you responded....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tally-ho Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 All JAZZ employees and their former airlines stepped up to the plate long ago but were not allowed to make it work because of SCOPE. We may now have our chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lupin Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Air Canada got itself into the position they are in now!!I started a few years ago with Air Canada and after a month of being an air canada employee I knew that it would be impossible for a company to operate in that manner for extended periods! Nothing that is happening at Air Canada is unexpected... and if it is we need new leadership!The company has been selling all the assets...(we were told that in 97 we had 50 some % of our assets that were ours,now we have 4 %)Air Canada isn't even a company worth liquidating anymore!! The IAM group has been asked for a huge time bank for employees (200 hrs).Would you really trust a company on the verge of bankrupcy with 200 hrs of your worked pay??As soon as it goes belly up you lose everything!! With the financial picture that was painted to us by management at the last meetings I don't think concessions are the way to go.The airline industry seems to have a way of balancing itself out.Instead of taking pay cuts to help a carrier that is 13 billion dollars in debt...why not let it flop and we can all get jobs with whoever replaces Air Canada.Then at least we get a fresh start(no 13 billion debt)and maybe a company with a better business plan.Ask the guys from canadian how pay cuts helped them!!? A look at the airline industry in the early 90ies should bring back souvenirs as well....pay cuts for everyone and look at where that got us 10 years later!! Full pay till the last day!!!! What are we holding on to here anyways??An airline with an oudated business model that will try to cut on labor everytime something bad happens.The price of oil goes up...lets cut salaries,the price of parts goes up...lets cut salaries....the price of airport fees goes up...lets cut salaries!!sounds like a raw deal lupin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipped Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Good post lupin. So what do you think will happen now. Gov't intervention? Gov't repatriation? One thing for sure though is that Milton has to go, and sooner the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GDR Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Interesting logic in your post. If AC were to close up shop you just sorta figure that you will move over to whatever takes our place. The logical replacement for us would be either West Jet or Jetsgo. From what I know about West Jet hiring I have to wonder whether they would actually hire anybody from a group who's motto was "Full pay to the Last Day". I am pretty sure that Jetsgo would feel the same way. On top of that they will hire someone at a much lower wage than what you are receiving now. As far as your comments on the company leadership. It is extremely easy to sit back and say it's all the CEO's fault when we hit hard times. Who forecast 9/11, who forecast oil at 37 bucks a barrel, who forecast just how much low cost carriers would cut into the business of established full service airlines, and who forecast another war in Iraq. Times change and now we have to change with it. Milton has been a good step ahead of all the American full service airlines in forecasting and dealing with this problem. We already have ZIP, Tango, and Jetz in place and now UAL, AA etc are scrambling to catch up to where we are now. Just who would you put in as CEO? Instead of taking anonymous pot shots at the CEO how about coming up with solutions. This airline is going to back on it's feet. It's going to look different than it does now, and it isn't going to happen overnight, but it will happen and Milton is one of the reasons. It would be great if you were part of the solution and not part of the problem. Greg Robinson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jet Dude Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Greg, I agree with most of what you are saying,but it will not be because of Milton, it will be because of desparation and survival. Lupin also has good points, where he states that in times of trouble lets slash employee salaries, it should also be metion that this logic seems to be extended to fares, hey we are losing money so lets slash fares, even though we have a load factor close to the mid seventies range, this nonsense must stop also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GDR Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Who knows what slashing fares does. Where is the trade off? If we hadn't slashed fares maybe we'ed only be running with 50% load factors. Like they say, once you pull away from the gate with an empty seat it's worth nothing. I still maintain that Milton has been an innovative CEO. We'll just have to wait to see what he does in the future. Cheers Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jet Dude Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Sorry Greg, I should have been a little more clear.The point I was trying to make was even with out the seat sales we are running at about mid 70's in capacity.If Ac wants to cut fares, the only place I can see it is in J class, I looked at an advance J booking from YYZ to YUL, it was 800, that is far to steep, may be reduce the J and raise the Y slightly, I think the revenue would increase and still not drive away customers, you may actually have more J passengers. Again my apologies for not being clear in the first post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GDR Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Well who knows? I drive the bus. I won't even pretend that I know the first thing about yield management. Milton started out here in marketing and one of the first things he did was get the equivalent of something like 12 A320's through increasing our aircraft utilization. I frankly have to believe, that when it comes to yield management that is an area in which we are strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lupin Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 I'm not convinced Milton is the problem either zipped.Put yourself in his shoes, you start out with an airline and are forced to merge(we will supposed for my example he was pressured by colenette)with canadian.You end up with 80% of the market....everyone hates you and thinks you are gouging them.no one thinks air canada just saved 15000 jobs at canadian..they just think they are being ripped off!! so what do you do?you already have 80% of the people flying with you.... the goverment wants your market share to go down.... you inherited a company that used to be run by the goverment with the labour contracts that go with it.All the small discount type outfits want to bring you to court for predetory pricing.Try getting investors to invest in this company!!!Its a joke!How do you set goals with that type of organisation?? Milton tried to get techops to be profitable with outside contracts.At least there I see some direction.I like the fact that he actually took time to look at maintenance as a way to make money versus as a cost like everyone is used to seeing it.there is a fortune to be made with contracts!!!Look at spar aerospace,cascade,avmax and standard aero. I just dont beleive that we at air canada have the structure to compete with these people with the way we are performing right now.You can blame managers,lack of equipment,computers,or employees!! it doesn't mather...the fact remains we just are not competitive at the moment. Its pretty hard to change the mind set of people.everyone has seen what concessions have done in other companies.In most cases they dont lead the company to prosperity. I read once that the description of foolishness was doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. makes you think doesn't it? What we are doing isn't working... but before i tender in one red cent to the company i would like some acountability!! I refuse to accept any concessions unless management takes their share of the burden.If they want pay cuts they can lead by example and give up their stock options and bonuses and a percentage of their pay. I also want a business plan!!They burned trough million after millions and then they come and ask for more??I refuse to take a pay cut to prolong what may be the inevitable.Show me some direction,tell me what our goal is??Give us acheivable goals.... I say it again...if you can't explain to me how this company is going to turn around and give me a comprehensive plan for air canada to emerge as a winner in this airline industry..... FULL PAY TILL THE LAST DAY I do my part by fixing Airplanes to the best of my abilities,giving 100% to get airplanes out on time and making shure everyone from passenger to pilot are safe in the skies. lupin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Airmail Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Please outline what personal sacrifices you took when management salaries were frozen last year and when management employees took pay reductions? Management showed leadership and took the pain last year. The unions responded by doing nothing (pilot flex is not the be-all-end-all, sorry) and kept on taking their scheduled pay raises and insisting on job security post-9/11. What other full service airline continued to pay raises after 9/11? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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