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I wish.....


Kip Powick
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AEF has been around a long time and I am  probably one of the few that are still on this forum...In its infancy the topic covered was AVIATION  in the airline world, and ,yes, the scope broadened, we started to see members from other countries adding information, much of which enlightened those of in the industry. 

Many realistic and true accident reports  involving aircraft were posted and created hearty conversation about all aspects of aviation from pilots to cabin crew to those pesky ground crew that kept us safe in the air...POVs were shared and again we all learned something when we delved into other folk's opinions....it was a learning tool that we all respected and although opinions may have differed it was all food for thought.

Then Military aviation crept in  and there was no outcry  because the topic was AVIATION and lets face it, many airline members are/were exMilitary members both in the air and on the ground.

The point I would like to make is I WISH that forum attached to this AIRLINE WEBSITE .......Non Aviation Discussion Forum  was not attached to the AIRLINEWEBSITE.COM.........and the reason  ???

Politics seems to be the "go-to" in that forum and heated discussions always creep in and as a result we, as moderators, are more frequently attending to reports filed by a person , or in some cases, many persons who feel a post is not within the social and acceptable limits we have set in this forum.

Personally and bear in mind this is just my opinion, not that of the owner.operator of the Airline website, I would like to see that "political or other stuff " forum removed.

There are so many other forums that carry other topics, including political POVs in fact all news papers and well known TV channels carry forums  so , yes, I would like to prune this forum and MAINLY stick to aviation......  with ocassional whisps of NOT REALLY aviation but tolerable posts...........kick the politics ((Non Aviation Discussion Forum)) to the curb.

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4 hours ago, Kip Powick said:

The point I would like to make is I WISH that forum attached to this AIRLINE WEBSITE .......Non Aviation Discussion Forum  was not attached to the AIRLINEWEBSITE.COM

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16 hours ago, Kip Powick said:

AEF has been around a long time and I am  probably one of the few that are still on this forum...In its infancy the topic covered was AVIATION  in the airline world, and ,yes, the scope broadened, we started to see members from other countries adding information, much of which enlightened those of in the industry. 

Many realistic and true accident reports  involving aircraft were posted and created hearty conversation about all aspects of aviation from pilots to cabin crew to those pesky ground crew that kept us safe in the air...POVs were shared and again we all learned something when we delved into other folk's opinions....it was a learning tool that we all respected and although opinions may have differed it was all food for thought.

Then Military aviation crept in  and there was no outcry  because the topic was AVIATION and lets face it, many airline members are/were exMilitary members both in the air and on the ground.

The point I would like to make is I WISH that forum attached to this AIRLINE WEBSITE .......Non Aviation Discussion Forum  was not attached to the AIRLINEWEBSITE.COM.........and the reason  ???

Politics seems to be the "go-to" in that forum and heated discussions always creep in and as a result we, as moderators, are more frequently attending to reports filed by a person , or in some cases, many persons who feel a post is not within the social and acceptable limits we have set in this forum.

Personally and bear in mind this is just my opinion, not that of the owner.operator of the Airline website, I would like to see that "political or other stuff " forum removed.

There are so many other forums that carry other topics, including political POVs in fact all news papers and well known TV channels carry forums  so , yes, I would like to prune this forum and MAINLY stick to aviation......  with ocassional whisps of NOT REALLY aviation but tolerable posts...........kick the politics ((Non Aviation Discussion Forum)) to the curb.

Hi Kip.  You're not the first to suggest this.  

I'm not really sure why this seems to bother people so much.  I don't eat vegetarian but it doesn't bother me to see vegetarian items on the menu - I just ignore them.  The same should go with internet forums - read the ones that interest you and ignore the rest.  No?  The non-aviation forum represents about 15% of the total posts on the site.  There are a couple of active threads but most haven't seen any activity in weeks so it's not like we're being overrun.

I'm somewhat reluctant to remove the "non-aviation" forums because some of the topics are kinda/sorta airline/aviation related;  the Coronavirus, electrification of transport, the Emergency Measures Act.  They all have some connection to aviation but spill over into politics - some OK, some not.  The "solution" is to have a full-time moderator who reviews every post and decides: "OK" or "too political".  Is that what we want?

So, let's say we close the non-aviation forums and say "aviation topics only' but then our Transport Minister makes some change to legislation - well, here we are talking about politics.  I know what you're saying;  "yes, it's politics but it's politics about aviation, so that's OK."  Sure but 3 or 4 posts into the discussion someone will compare the Liberal Transportation policy to the Conservative Transportation policy and then Liberals in general to Conservatives - at some point the moderator will need to step in and say; "now it's too political - shut it down".  That requires a lot of effort, careful monitoring and, I've seen it on other forums, the personality of the moderator and his/her decisions become a point of contention that drives people away and squashes participation every bit as much as the mere exisitance of the forum or topic in the first place.

More to the point, however, than anything I wrote above - I think you're looking at this with the wrong expectation.  You're looking back at the glory days of the forum when everything was fresh and new - the forum was new because all forums were new.  There was lots of interest in discussing things with new people and participating in it because it was the new thing.  Now, it's all 25 years old.  I've pretty much said everything I ever need to say on a forum.  Back in the halcyon days of the early 2000s a visit to the forum might actually give you news or opinion that you couldn't find elsewhere but now there's thousands of sources and feeds and Youtube channels.

I hate to say it but this website does not draw new members.  It's been suggested that the reason for this is that prospective members get turned off by the existence of the non-aviation forum.  I don't think that's it - just co-incidence.  That and the fact that younger people tend to use Twitter, Telegram, Signal, Facebook groups etc more than a standard internet forum.  Plus, they have more fractured lives and aren't interested in sitting down and composing something that takes 30 minutes to do.  I'm coming up on retirement myself in a few years and I don't have the time to send on the forum that I used to;  Netflix, Youtube, Tidal, ebooks, podcasts, games on the phone, games on the computer, it never ends.

All that being said I will accept the recommendation of the majority.  Send PMs with opinion, post here in the thread if that's your choice.  I'll try to get a poll up and running.

I'll be happy to pull the plug on the non-aviation forums if that's the majority sentiment (but don't think it will do anything to up the quality or quantity of posts in the aviation forums).

 

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Seeker..

I respect your comments and thank you for the time you took to post your opinion. Yes, I am biased....and thanks also for formulating a  poll.  As an aside, I get all my political information from two newspapers, CNN , CBC, Global and CTV but I must admit I do so very infrequently..... and don't want to waste my time engaging in political repartee . Don't like what we see, or what we have ?....go vote.....you can't change much by hollering at the clouds..

 

Anyhow, not sure if this has been posted.......we all  probably know about ArriveCan app but did you know about  the app titled MPC 

It is an app applicable to US and CDN citizens ENTERING the USA.... Certainly saves time with US Customs and is available for Apple users but not sure about Androids.

Be safe.😁

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As another long-timer (1998), I have to agree with Kip. The last three years has seen a dwindling of past AEF contributors, myself included, due in part to less and less relevant (IMO) topics in just the Aviation Forum alone. Revitalize or shut down. It's been a good run.

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I might add that I thought the tone of the discourse and the vitriol on here sometimes went well beyond what I would consider friendly or respectful.  I know we lost some members who I genuinely respected and admired for their insights because of it.  The nastiness snowballed after that because those that can't impose a bit of self control were then able to spend even more time beating up on those that remain.   

Edited by Specs
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I too go back to the Jim Wood days. I think that the non-aviation discussion forum is kept separate and can be disregarded completely. Also there just isn't that many here any more on the aviation forum. I have found many of the discussions interesting and informative.

I do think though that the non-aviation part of the site should be restricted to discussions. Cartoons mocking public figures just detract from the subject and don't elicit any discussion.

I suggested having a separate thread titled "Humour" and those that want to and stick their cartoons in there.

Greg

 

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The last time I checked viewing ANY section of this web site was voluntary. Your choice, you decide.
Where is it written one is forced to read the non aviation forum? It’s not rocket science folks.

 

I understand it’s 2022, and every sentence has to somewhere include the phrase “I feel” instead of the tried and true “I think” ….If the subject matter doesn’t make your innards feel all warm and fuzzy, maybe one shouldn’t go there. Topics  based in reality outside the realm of “coffee room airplane chat” can be stressful to some, but that does not translate (In my opinion) to topics that should not be discussed.
 

A few years ago, some were offended about certain topics creeping in here, so the non aviation section was formed as a compromise to pacify those few. It has served that purpose quite well. Even this thread could be construed as “political” and therefore should not be a part of this section if you really want to push it.
 

 Reading between the lines one has to presume some no longer want to read subjects based in reality regardless of where they are posted. In actual fact, those are the subjects that NEED to be discussed.
 

What has the world become that providing people “safe spaces” must take priority over every opposing voice where the only option is to censor them out of existence? 

If this is what the generations born between 1940 to 1980 have become, it’s no wonder the world is such a screwed up place.

Edited by Jaydee
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4 hours ago, Jaydee said:

The last time I checked viewing ANY section of this web site was voluntary. Your choice, you decide.
Where is it written one is forced to read the non aviation forum? It’s not rocket science folks.

 

I understand it’s 2022, and every sentence has to somewhere include the phrase “I feel” instead of the tried and true “I think” ….If the subject matter doesn’t make your innards feel all warm and fuzzy, maybe one shouldn’t go there. Topics  based in reality outside the realm of “coffee room airplane chat” can be stressful to some, but that does not translate In my opinion to topics that should not be discussed.
 

A few years ago, some were offended about certain topics creeping in here, so the non aviation section was formed as a compromise to pacify those few. It has served that purpose quite well. Even this thread could be construed as “political” and therefore should not be a part of this section if you really want to push it.
 

 Reading between the lines one has to presume they no longer want to read subjects based in reality regardless of where they are posted.
 

What has the world become that “safe spaces” must take priority over every opposing voice where the only option is to censor them out of existence? 

If this is what the generations born between 1940 to 1980 have become, it’s no wonder the world is such a screwed up place.

Agree on all counts.

Just a brief visit during a short absence but i evened up the score card, in doing so, I can't help but wonder where the notion that limiting participation results in increased participation hails from. 

IMO, the lack of interest in this poll is indicative of the lack of interest in banning the non aviation side. Does there always have to be a ban and need it extend to that which you freely admit to not reading?

Sometimes getting along with your neighbours (especially the ones who want nothing from you) is as easy as giving them what they want.... you do you with my full support. All I want in return for that support is nothing, how easy is that?

Best wishes.

Edited by Wolfhunter
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18 hours ago, Wolfhunter said:

Agree on all counts.

Just a brief visit during a short absence but i evened up the score card, in doing so, I can't help but wonder where the notion that limiting participation results in increased participation hails from. 

IMO, the lack of interest in this poll is indicative of the lack of interest in banning the non aviation side. Does there always have to be a ban and need it extend to that which you freely admit to not reading?

Sometimes getting along with your neighbours (especially the ones who want nothing from you) is as easy as giving them what they want.... you do you with my full support. All I want in return for that support is nothing, how easy is that?

Best wishes.

Being that Jaydee and you are the majority posters on the non airlines forum, I am not surprised re your vote / comments.   😀

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I don’t understand the conundrum that is being presented ….. since the topics have a separate header and you don’t want to read what’s in the non aviation section, don’t open it! 
From a moderators pov, I could see how the workload is increased and maybe the members don’t really get to see what goes on “behind the scenes”…..I will agree the politics side does get repetitive.

Which goes back to my original point, if a member is not interested in the non aviation side, and knows it’s the same old, same old, why go there? Reduce the workload for the moderators.
 

 

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15 minutes ago, st27 said:

 

Which goes back to my original point, if a member is not interested in the non aviation side, and knows it’s the same old, same old, why go there?


 

 

Exactly. As I said earlier, I simply ignore it.

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15 hours ago, Skeptic said:

Being that Jaydee and you are the majority posters on the non airlines forum, I am not surprised re your vote / comments.   😀

Cool… but that’s neither the issue nor the question at hand IMO.

If we stood the entire situation on its head and members were seeking to ban the AME Forum, Site Sponsors, Polls (or what ever), I would be saying the same thing, in the same way for exactly the same reason… even though I rarely (almost never actually) go there or read any of it.

But more than the fate of the Non Aviation Forum itself, what I find distressing here is the recent (and now all too common) sentiment that: “if I don’t approve it should be banned, if I do approve it should be mandatory.”

Perhaps it’s just me, but In my experience of the world it’s a notion that invariably leads to a philosophy, and that philosophy, and all that proceeds from it as a consequence, never seems to age well.

Cheers

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2 hours ago, Skeptic said:

Who said the AME forum was not aviation related?

 

No one did.  Apparently the thought process behind Wolfs response was too complex for some to comprehend.

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