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Russia Invades Ukraine


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18 hours ago, mo32a said:

Canada could not close the skies over anywhere.

With our tiny air force with badly outdated equipment we couldn't close the airspace over Newfoundland.

I suggest you have a look at our capabilities.  Yes the equipment is old but it is well maintained and well utilized.  In fact we typically outperform the US and other countries in Exercises.  We have a well respected Air Force and Military.

We just don't flaunt it

 

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1 hour ago, boestar said:

I suggest you have a look at our capabilities.  Yes the equipment is old but it is well maintained and well utilized.  In fact we typically outperform the US and other countries in Exercises.  We have a well respected Air Force and Military.

We just don't flaunt it

 

Nor do we well fund it (updates)

Quote

'We have to do more': Foreign affairs minister on Canada’s defence spending

Rachel AielloCTVNews.ca Online Politics Producer

@rachaiello  Contact

Published Friday, March 18, 2022 10:55AM EDT

Canada has to step up defence spending: Joly | CTV News

 

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War in Ukraine: America is learning the art of humility

By Katty Kay

The country that began this century by invading not one but two countries, has become more modest in the face of the nightmare that is Ukraine. Forget shock and awe, this is the era of caution and apprehension. That's what having no good options will do for you.

Friday's two-hour phone call with China's President Xi, superpower to superpower, was a sign of how hard it will be for America to stop this war. The US's leverage over China is limited, and readouts from both sides suggest the call didn't achieve much. But it was part of an orchestrated diplomatic strategy that contrasts with much of the first year of Joe Biden's presidency.

After the fiasco of the Afghan withdrawal last summer, America lost credibility with its European allies. US intelligence looked unprepared, and the operation of leaving was staggeringly incompetent. What's more, European diplomats complained, America didn't really consult with allies. America pulled out on its own precipitous timetable, leaving countries that still had forces and personnel in the country scrambling. When some Europeans said it would be smart to leave a residual Nato force, the White House ignored the pleas.

That heavy-handed mission was followed by another. In September, the White House announced a nuclear submarine security pact between Australia, Britain and the US. The pact left the French, who had been negotiating their own sub sale to the Australians, out in the cold. Worse, the Elysee Palace said it learned of the new deal from the press. It was a masterclass in how not to handle your oldest ally. The French were so furious that President Biden apologised and admitted the US had been clumsy.

But the damage was done. By the autumn of 2021 Europeans were disappointed in the Biden administration and felt their hopes that a post-Trump America would be more collegial were ill-founded. When Washington started ringing the alarm bell about Russia and Ukraine, Europeans weren't in much mood to listen. "War-mongering" was how one EU diplomat described it to me.

Whether it was the lesson of Afghanistan or the nature of this particularly difficult catastrophe, we don't know, but the White House handled this crisis very differently.

From the start it has consulted with its allies, many of whom were sceptical. There are reports that US diplomats approached Europeans as equals not subordinates. The administration shared highly secret intelligence in a manner that was unprecedented. In the months that led up to the invasion senior White House officials made multiple trips to meet their European counterparts. President Biden made regular phone calls to European leaders.

This wasn't Iraq in 2002, it wasn't Trump's America First, it wasn't Afghanistan in 2021. This was genuine alliance building.

On 27 January there was an indication that the shuttle diplomacy was bearing fruit. A full month before the invasion, during an otherwise ordinary press briefing, the White House spokeswoman, Jennifer Psaki, announced that German Chancellor Olaf Sholz would visit the White House on 7 February.

Securing that visit of the brand new German leader was an indication that the administration both anticipated what was coming, and knew what was needed: German co-operation. A visit to the White House is a coup for any foreign leader, it's a useful weapon of soft power. Yes, President Zelensky's articulate appeals also played a big part in shifting German policy, but US diplomacy helped win German support.

Beyond diplomacy, there is a new recognition here of Washington's military limits, a realisation that force won't get America everything it wants, however strong its army. That's an unusual position for the world's biggest military.

When Saddam Hussein marched into Kuwait in 1990, the US rallied the world to put boots on the ground to get him out. In 1999 President Clinton ordered Nato jets to conduct airstrikes in Kosovo. After 9/11, the US strong-armed a coalition of the unwilling to invade Iraq. In 2011, the US military was part of the operation that helped topple Muammar Gaddafi in Libya.

Today Washington is holding back, resisting the emotional pleas of Zelensky to use that military clout. It's sending weapons, intelligence and cyber-support. But for the moment it won't do more.

America knows it could impose, and most probably enforce, a no-fly zone. It has the jets and missiles and pilots to do so. But, as the White House says repeatedly, mobilising the might of the Pentagon won't necessarily end this war, it might make it worse. The more America leads, the greater the risk that Putin can sell this to his own people as a fight between Russia and the US.

Which is why you won't hear this White House talk about regime change, or democracy, or even freedom in Russia.

 

I reread President Bush's second inaugural address, delivered in 2005, at the height of the Iraq war, when neo-conservatives ran US foreign policy.

"It is the policy of the United States to seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nature and culture, with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world," the newly re-elected president declared. Talk about hubris.

Yet the White House also understands the risks of not being more assertive. It knows that not intervening could lead to the deaths of countless more Ukrainian civilians, and President Putin may strike a Nato country anyway. So it walks a tightrope with potentially horrifying consequences, recognising that there are no good answers. The US is left to help Ukrainians from the sidelines. And maybe that is all they can do.

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On 3/18/2022 at 6:42 AM, boestar said:

I suggest you have a look at our capabilities.  Yes the equipment is old but it is well maintained and well utilized.  In fact we typically outperform the US and other countries in Exercises.  We have a well respected Air Force and Military.

We just don't flaunt it

 

My opinion differs greatly from yours.

The air force is tiny using outdated equipment and armament.

The navy doesn't even have a supply ship it can take into harm's way.

The army is well trained, poorly equipped compared to others and is too small to create much of a fighting force.

We used to be respected now we are just a non-entity.

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Quote of the day:

The Polish outlet Onet.Pl reportedly gained access to a secret project at Poland's Ministry of National Defense, aiming to deploy peacekeepers from a number of NATO countries to Ukraine. Warsaw is expected to officially present it at the NATO summit on March 24. The U.S. will not participate but may agree to a mission involving some other countries. 

Progressives are dangerous... they should stick to making (and breaking) climate change targets and defunding police in their own jurisdictions. 

The questions here seem pretty straight forward to me. Are you prepared to have NATO and Russian forces come into direct conflict? And, are you prepared to go full Article 5? 

Kind of important to figure that out before hand IMO.... and until you're prepared to answer simple questions about simple things that you've already committed to, like Paris Accord targets, then please stay home and have a latte. You simply aren't up to the task. 

So, what do you want to cut in order to hit Canada's Accord targets? I've asked many times to no avail... until you can answer that question please don't even think about things with the potential to spark WW3. 

 

 

 

Edited by Wolfhunter
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On 3/23/2022 at 5:51 PM, Wolfhunter said:

Nothing to worry about:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/nato-tells-russia-quit-nuclear-saber-rattling-demands-china-stop-lies-chemical-attack-threats

The same people who managed the Covid pandemic are working this issue on your behalf.  

 

The comments on that article are a testament to the lack of education in the US. 

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AS RATIONS RUN OUT, RUSSIANS EAT STRAY DOGS

SUPPLIES, MORALE REPORTEDLY LOW FOR DESPERATE CONSCRIPTS, PER TAPPED CALLS

  • Calgary Herald
  • 1 Apr 2022
  • DAVID MILLWARD AND VERITY BOWMAN
img?regionKey=P6qUFW9XyB5KrVp5hG6Wgg%3d%3dSERGEI SUPINSKY / AFP VIA GETTY IMAGES Stray dogs gather at a deserted home, damaged by Russian shelling, near the frontline village of Horenka, north of Kyiv.

Russian troops are eating abandoned pet dogs as they run out of poor-quality rations that have quickly dwindled among the badly trained conscripts sent to Ukraine.

In a 45-second call from a Russian soldier to his family, intercepted by the Ukrainian security service, Ukrainian commanders learned that enemy troops were “sick” of the ready meals they have been given and that not many are left.

During the call the soldier was asked: “Are you eating OK at least?” He replied: “Not too bad. We had alabay (a breed of sheepdog found in Central Asia) yesterday. We wanted some meat.”

Earlier this week, there were reports a massive effort had been undertaken to rescue abandoned cats and dogs that, it was feared, would be eaten by hungry Russian soldiers who have been accused of looting supermarkets and even begging Ukrainians for food.

In March, a farmer near Kherson in the south of the country, said Russian soldiers had seized his produce, telling him they were “nationalizing” it. A video recording also showed a Ukrainian woman providing tea and a snack to a Russian soldier and passing him her mobile phone so he could call his mother.

Other transcripts of calls allegedly made by Russian troops saying they have run out of ammunition and fuel have laid bare their low morale.

In Belarus, more than a dozen major acts of sabotage have been reported across the Belarusian railway network in recent weeks, in what has been dubbed a “railway resistance,” as antiwar activists seek to derail Moscow's efforts to resupply its troops around Kyiv through Belarus.

Belarus is a launch pad for Russia's invasion of the north of Ukraine and this is Moscow's route into Kyiv's northern suburbs as well as the city of Chernihiv in the northeast.

Under cover of darkness, residents in crucial junction towns do whatever they can to stop the supply trains.

Some place large logs on the railway sleepers and set fire to them. Others torch the electric relay cabinets — a crucial piece of equipment that controls traffic and can take weeks to repair.

These partisans choose their targets based on information from railway workers on their side, such as the schedule of a military train carrying Russian weapons to the front line in Ukraine, but disguised as an ordinary shipment of glass.

“It's a nuisance for the Russian military. Their safety protocols for moving the trainloads are compromised,” said Siarhei Voitekhovich, a former Belarusian Railways employee who now co-ordinates the “partisans” from exile. “Equipment gets destroyed. It takes days to put things back in operation.”

Meanwhile, Vladimir Putin is facing a growing backlash over his use of conscripts unprepared for the reality of the war on Ukraine.

Shell-shocked soldiers have claimed they were sent over the border believing they were “saving” Ukrainians, only to be confronted by a brutal battle for territory. The Russian Defence Ministry claims that just 1,351 of its soldiers have been killed since the start of the invasion on Feb. 24. According to NATO, at least 15,000 Russians have died.

The Russian president is embroiled in a feud with his military leaders who, according to reports, misled him over the use of young soldiers in Mariupol, Kherson, and other war-torn cities.

On March 9, the defence ministry acknowledged that conscripts had been sent to Ukraine.

Putin had previously said that only professional soldiers and officers were expected to fight.

But Thursday he signed a decree conscripting 134,500 young people into the army as part of Russia's annual spring draft. The defence ministry said the call-up was unrelated to the war.

One Russian mother whose son was killed fighting for his country in Ukraine said the war was justified. The woman, named as Natalya, told Deutsche Welle, the German broadcaster, that her son Yevgeny “died for us” and added that Russia must “press on until we achieve victory.”

Her son, a 26-year-old staff sergeant, was killed in fighting at Hostomel airport, near Kyiv, on the first day of the war.

Natalya said the Russian army told Yevgeny that he was being sent on a military exercise near the border with Belarus.

“This is a proper war,” she said. “I am aware we are not supposed to call it that, but it is a war. It's a bloodbath.”

However, she claimed her son had not died in vain. “If we had not started bombing them, the Ukrainians would have bombed us. We had no choice.”

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1 hour ago, Kargokings said:

AS RATIONS RUN OUT, RUSSIANS EAT STRAY DOGS

SUPPLIES, MORALE REPORTEDLY LOW FOR DESPERATE CONSCRIPTS, PER TAPPED CALLS

  •  

The question is - do you believe it?

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3 minutes ago, Kargokings said:

The answer is, I have no reason not to.   

In the entire history of war it has always been an advantage to paint the enemy as capable of despicable acts.  The easier it is to de-humanize them the easier it is to hate and disgust.

It certainly might be true.  Ask yourself how much faith you have in the media to tell you the honest truth - about anything.  The article itself admits the idea of pet dogs being eaten comes from a single 45 second phone call.  Was it the truth or a running gag between a couple of friends or even misunderstood/mistranslated?  Of course the very real possibility of it being a complete fabrication exists too.

Whatever the truth is the fact that the story is being reported tells me that someone wants me to believe the Russians army in the Ukraine are horrible savages on the edge of destruction.

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40 minutes ago, Seeker said:

Whatever the truth is the fact that the story is being reported tells me that someone wants me to believe the Russians army in the Ukraine are horrible savages on the edge of destruction.

The standard greeting when you're waiting to see what your deployment status might be is: "heard any good atrocities lately?"

Remember the tearful young lady with the story about soldiers killing babies in a nursery? It never happened. This stuff isn't new, it's an old technique and it works.

BTW, there's a small cadre of individuals who think nothing of eating dog, they often carry their own spices in those larger Tic Tac containers for just such occasions... you won't hear them complaining about rations and it won't make the papers either.  

The first casualty of war doesn't even bleed.

 

Edited by Wolfhunter
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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Wolfhunter said:

The standard greeting when you're waiting to see what your deployment status might be is: "heard any good atrocities lately?"

Remember the tearful young lady with the story about soldiers killing babies in a nursery? It never happened. This stuff isn't new, it's an old technique and it works.

BTW, there's a small cadre of individuals who think nothing of eating dog, they often carry their own spices in those larger Tic Tac containers for just such occasions... you won't hear them complaining about rations and it won't make the papers either.  

The first casualty of war doesn't even bleed.

 

Keep in mind this is from an agency controlled by the Trudeau government, so right off the bat, there’s probably a good 50/50 chance it’s misinformation. 


“Ukrainians harvesting soldiers' organs: Canada's digital spy agency warns of new Russian disinformation “

The Communications Security Establishment has found evidence that Russia is promoting horrible and fake stories

Ukrainians harvesting fallen soldiers’ organs or Russian anti-war protesters supporting “neo-Nazis and genocide.” Those are just some of the disinformation campaigns Russia has conducted online since it launched its invasion of Ukraine, according to Canada’s cyber security agency.

 

In posts on Twitter Friday morning, the Communications Security Establishment (CSE) said it was sharing information from its classified reporting on Russia’s latest disinformation campaigns to help protect Canadians who may fall prey to the country’s propaganda.

 

“Since Russia’s brazen and unjustifiable invasion of Ukraine, we have observed numerous Russia-backed disinformation campaigns online designed to support their actions” namely by creating and spreading false information about both Ukrainians or anti-war protesters in Russia, CSE wrote on Twitter.

 

CSE says it has found evidence that Russia is promoting horrible and fake stories saying Ukraine was “harvesting organs of fallen soldiers, women and children” and then hiding the evidence through mobile cremating devices

https://torontosun.com/news/politics/ukrainians-harvesting-soldiers-organs-canadas-digital-spy-agency-warns-of-new-russian-disinformation

Edited by Jaydee
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You have experts in disinformation identifying disinformation whilst supplying their own flavour of disinformation. Invariably, where you stand is a function of where you squat and what paper you wipe your butt with.

Usually there's an element of truth too (just a sniff of it). Personally, I would prefer dog to the heartburn I used to get from LRPs... but that's just me.

These news articles can be written in your basement with minimal talent and zero research effort, even I can do it. Watch this:

Starving Russian Soldiers Eat Their War Dead As Supply Lines Crumble

Edited by Wolfhunter
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And just wait until US Democrats jump on the "Tac sign" bandwagon... maybe the use of numbers will be next. In the interest of clarity, (and incase you were wondering) that's what the Z thing is actually about:

 image.png.cc6380cef2da7033dba0c4e851167f6e.png

Edited by Wolfhunter
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35 minutes ago, Wolfhunter said:

And just wait until US Democrats jump on the "Tac sign" bandwagon... maybe the use of numbers will be next. In the interest of clarity, (and incase you were wondering) that's what the Z thing is actually about:

 image.png.cc6380cef2da7033dba0c4e851167f6e.png

The "Z' symbol is simply a fast way to identify "friend or foe" much like the invasion markings on aircraft during D-Day -

220px-Spitfire_mark19_ps853_planform_arp.jpg

220px-Lockheed_F-5_Lightning.jpg

220px-SeaFury_launch.jpg

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1 hour ago, Moon The Loon said:

The "Z' symbol is simply a fast way to identify "friend or foe" much like the invasion markings on aircraft during D-Day -

Indeed, it's a TAC Sign. It also makes aerial control, positioning and identification of individual ground assets quicker and easier. As you can imagine, it makes communications easier too, particularly in complex urban environments when SA is important.

Perhaps I made the point poorly, too often I assume everyone gets it when I probably shouldn't.... TY. In any case, banning letters and numbers based on that is new level of liberal madness IMO.

LOL, should I change my screen name to Alpha 3 and join woxof on the bad bunny list?

Edited by Wolfhunter
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I'm no economist so I can't argue for or against the following POV but, from the sounds of it, the "sanction" game might be a fail for the West:

"A Paradigm Shift Western Media Hasn't Grasped Yet" - Russian Ruble Relaunched, Linked To Gold & Commodities

https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/paradigm-shift-western-media-hasnt-grasped-yet-russian-ruble-relaunched-linked-gold-and

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