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Comparing Platforms


GDR
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Frankly I don's see the point of voting Conservative just because we might believe that Trudeau and the Liberal party has a poor record as PM. If we are to vote Conservative then we should compare the platforms of the two parties, and decide if the Conservatives, or any other party, can do a better job.

Here is the platform of the Liberals from their web site.

https://liberal.ca/our-plan/team-trudeau-delivers-a-real-plan-to-move-canada-forward-for-everyone/

It is a one page document that is mostly items that had been promised in the last couple of campaigns and without a specific plan of how to implement them. Things like "walking the shared path of reconciliation". That is a simple motherhood statement that all parties, (except maybe the PPC), would want to happen. How do the Liberals propose this be done? The Liberals have been in power for 6 years. They have thrown some money at the issue without a plan and the country is as divided as it has ever been.  Childcare of $10.00 a day it least has something of a proposal but they have had 6 years to implement it and it is largely a provincial issue anyway. 

Here is a link from which the can download the Conservative plan.

https://www.conservative.ca/plan/

It is a 160 page document with considerable detail.  I would add that the Liberals had control as to the timing of the next election. PM Trudeau chose a time in the middle of an election and right ahead of the withdrawal of our people from Afghanistan which we all knew was coming. The NDP had committed to not bringing down the government so there was no reason to call this election except for the fact that PM Trudeau thought it was his best chance to be reelected.

In spite of controlling the timing of the election the Liberals weren't even close to being prepared and had to cobble together a one page plan well into the election period. IMHO they approached this election in the same way they governed. I can see reasons to vote NDP, Green or Conservative, but again, IMHO, there is no reason to vote Liberal in this election.

 

 

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What is misleading in your post is that you stated the Liberal plan is one page when it isn't and it is fully costed.

https://liberal.ca/wp-content/uploads/sites/292/2021/09/Platform-Forward-For-Everyone.pdf

The Conservative plan isn't costed, and O'toole has already flip flopped on issues.

https://www.conservative.ca/plan/

The NDP plan also has not been costed.

https://xfer.ndp.ca/2021/Commitments/Ready for Better - NDP 2021 commitments.pdf?_gl=1*ywdi0u*_ga*MTM0MjUwOTAzNy4xNjMwOTUyMDM3*_ga_97QLYMLC56*MTYzMDk1MjAzNy4xLjEuMTYzMDk1MjA0Mi4w

Vote on the issues, not the rhetoric.

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As long as you are comparing apples to apples.

Historically all parties have spent like drunken sailors.

My point is that when it comes to the issues in this election, only one party is being up front with what it will actually cost while the others are just saying 'trust us'.

 

 

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2 hours ago, deicer said:

Historically all parties have spent like drunken sailors.

And if we added the other disaster Pierre Elliot to the right side, the picture couldn’t be more clear as to where the problem lies. Anything Trudeau related = DISASTER for Canadians

51DA99DA-7599-4101-BAE3-61490641095A.jpeg

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3 hours ago, deicer said:

As long as you are comparing apples to apples.

Historically all parties have spent like drunken sailors.

 

 

 

A drunken sailor will spend and spend until he/she runs out of cash (SPENDING LIKE A DRUNKEN SAILOR. 2580 – April 16, 2021 – SPENDING LIKE A DRUNKEN SAILOR – but at least the sailor was spending his OWN money, for his OWN pleasure. ), Justin on the other hand just spends and spends  our money ,  not his.  ?

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6 hours ago, deicer said:

only one party is being up front with what it will actually cost while the others are just saying 'trust us'.

And while we are talking about being up front, it is more than a little self serving for the liberals (who do not have a fully costed platform.. 11%..see below) to have the advantage of using their previously announced/costed programs, and having the other two parties trying to play catch up to the turds power grab. And then there is the details…..costed, fully costed, by the parties ( who may have different accounting practice ) or costed under the scrutiny of the PBO.

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All of this is mightily complicated by the fact that this is a snap election, called when the Liberals felt like calling it. In a fixed election, the PBO would have up to 120 days before the beginning of the election to work on estimates, assuming parties submitted their plans long enough in advance. In this snap election, the PBO could only begin working on estimates when the campaign began, and is required to finish its work before Sept. 20. That’s five weeks instead of four months. Less than five weeks, in fact, because the PBO must send costing to the parties in time for them to clear its public release.

So, one or two programs costed by the PBO, which can be misleading, or the whole platform……which needless to say, would be in the hundreds of billions, …… 

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Thirty minutes after this post went online, I got an email from Mathew Clancy at the Conservative Party’s campaign media office asking to chat. I gave him a call. Here’s what he told me.
 
(1) He’s sorry they didn’t get back to me about my emails.
(2) The Conservatives have received costing for some of the platform elements they sent to the Parliamentary Budget Office. Some but not all.
(3) When they have received costing for everything they sent to the PBO, they’ll authorize its public release, all at once. And not before. Clancy said he doesn’t want to release this stuff piecemeal. The PBO, he said, has only posted estimates pertaining to 11% of projected Liberal spending. That’s not a complete picture.
(4) So then I said, Mathew, the reason you know it’s 11% of the Liberals’ projected spending is that the Liberals have posted their own projected spending. Which any party can do. Why not do that?
(5) So then he says, parties’ own estimates invariably clash with the PBO’s estimates, and then you get into a back-and-forth, and nobody wants that. “The PBO is the gold standard.” So they’re content to authorize the PBO to post all of the PBO’s estimates, once they’re all in.
 

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/hey-conservatives-wheres-your-platform-costing/

So the liberals can release a partly costed plan, numbers go back and forth between the party and the PBO, and the voter loses track of the overall accurate total, which is the liberal modus operandi.

I would rather wait to see the bottom line! 

 

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8 hours ago, GDR said:

Frankly I don's see the point of voting Conservative just because we might believe that Trudeau and the Liberal party has a poor record as PM. If we are to vote Conservative then we should compare the platforms of the two parties, and decide if the Conservatives, or any other party, can do a better job.

Here is the platform of the Liberals from their web site.

https://liberal.ca/our-plan/team-trudeau-delivers-a-real-plan-to-move-canada-forward-for-everyone/

It is a one page document that is mostly items that had been promised in the last couple of campaigns and without a specific plan of how to implement them. Things like "walking the shared path of reconciliation". That is a simple motherhood statement that all parties, (except maybe the PPC), would want to happen. How do the Liberals propose this be done? The Liberals have been in power for 6 years. They have thrown some money at the issue without a plan and the country is as divided as it has ever been.  Childcare of $10.00 a day it least has something of a proposal but they have had 6 years to implement it and it is largely a provincial issue anyway. 

Here is a link from which the can download the Conservative plan.

https://www.conservative.ca/plan/

It is a 160 page document with considerable detail.  I would add that the Liberals had control as to the timing of the next election. PM Trudeau chose a time in the middle of an election and right ahead of the withdrawal of our people from Afghanistan which we all knew was coming. The NDP had committed to not bringing down the government so there was no reason to call this election except for the fact that PM Trudeau thought it was his best chance to be reelected.

In spite of controlling the timing of the election the Liberals weren't even close to being prepared and had to cobble together a one page plan well into the election period. IMHO they approached this election in the same way they governed. I can see reasons to vote NDP, Green or Conservative, but again, IMHO, there is no reason to vote Liberal in this election.

 

 

GDR, you are predicating your vote on who you believe is telling the truth about their platform. Surely a track record is the best indicator of whether or not you can believe them going forward.

In my opinion, Justin T fails that test miserably. I'm willing to give a Vet a chance to prove himself...especially considering what we have gone thru in the last 6 years with a trust fund, WE scandal, black faced part-time drama teacher who has no regard for finances.

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11 hours ago, deicer said:

What is misleading in your post is that you stated the Liberal plan is one page when it isn't and it is fully costed.

 

Right you are. I googled  looking of for the Liberal plan and that is what I was able to come up with.

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For those who are basing their decision on spending, well, today independent costing of the conservative platform is out and it shows that the O'toole's plan will cost even more than Trudeau's.

Apples to apples...

https://granthshala.com/conservative-plan-to-cost-more-than-100-billion-over-next-decade-star-analysis-finds/

Ottawa—The Conservatives plan to spend more than $100 billion over the next decade while maintaining that they can balance the federal books without cuts, a STAR analysis has found.

 

The direct spending promise in the Conservative platform is expected to total $103.6 billion over the next 10 years, excluding tax measures and other promises without a price tag.

The Conservative campaign has resisted calls to release details on the cost of its platform. Instead, they are relying on the independent Parliamentary Budget Office to deliver on their promises, and have promised to release an updated version of their platform when the analysis is complete.

 

Conservative campaign spokeswoman Chelsea Tucker said Monday with the Star’s analysis, “Once we receive the costing from PBO, we will be releasing our costing platform very soon.”

“As Mr O’Toole said, with Canada’s recovery plan we will get our economy back on track, get Canadians back to work, and stimulate growth over the next decade while balancing the budget.”

 

The task of balancing the books – without cuts – has been made more difficult by new spending promises in the Conservative platform issued early in the federal election campaign.

The lion’s share of the new spending comes from Erin O’Toole’s pledge to boost health transfers over the next 10 years – her party estimates that $60 billion more will flow to provinces over that period.

But conservatives are also promising big boosts to innovation spending ($5 billion), “natural” climate change mitigation measures ($3 billion) and upgrading long-term care homes ($3 billion).

 

O’Toole and the Conservatives say they can balance the budget over the next 10 years without cuts – banking on economic growth and slashing pandemic emergency spending to put Ottawa back in the black.

Whether this is technically possible – and, of course, barring any future financial crises – is a change in the tone of conservatives, who have traditionally been big on balanced budgets.

“This is nothing new for liberals because Justin Trudeau has been saying the same thing since 2015… (when) he ran to the left of (former NDP leader Thomas) Mulcair on budget and fiscal policy,” said Daniel Beland, said the director of the McGill Institute for the Study of Canada, in an interview with the Star last week.

“Conservatives, especially in the aftermath of the pandemic, have adopted a similar strategy … All this talk about the importance of balancing the budget, which was so central to Canadian politics in the 1980s, 1990s, is really missing.” has occurred.”

If elections are not the time to discuss serious issues, the same is doubly true for discussing fiscal restraint. Parties usually don’t expose everything they take away from Canadians who vote for them.

But the 2021 campaign is unique among the recent elections, in that no party is campaigning on the importance of balancing the books in the short to medium term.

The Liberal platform, released last week, showed a deficit of $157 billion in 2021-22, which declined to $32 billion in 2025-26. The debt-to-GDP ratio, the liberals’ favorite “fiscal anchor”, will fall from 48.5 per cent this year to 46.5 per cent in 2025-26. Those figures include $78 billion in proposed new spending from their platform commitments alone.

O’Toole said last week that his party would be able to balance the books over the next decade without cutting services. His plan relies on economic growth, allowing the budget to balance itself – an idea used to suggest conservative liberal leader Justin Trudeau.

O’Toole said on media availability last week, “Our plan is to balance our budget by controlling spending over the course of 10 years, but making sure we help the country get back on its feet.” ” .

Beland told the Star that the Conservatives can afford the deal, much to the dismay of fiscal hawkers within their own party – because in this election, voters don’t have a mainstream party campaigning for the importance of more restraint.

“The (political) center has moved to the left, and the parties are adjusting accordingly,” Beland said.

 

“Who will people who are financially conservative turn to?”

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1 hour ago, deicer said:

Conservative campaign spokeswoman Chelsea Tucker said Monday with the Star’s analysis, “Once we receive the costing from PBO, we will be releasing our costing platform very soon.”

Thanks for the link…..you can always trust the Star for unbiased reporting when it comes to conservative issues.

 

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If the Star is biased, then why is O'toole so reluctant to release the costing of his 'plan'?  

You would have thought that if they were organized and up front, they would have done the work already instead of hiding behind the PBO.

Also from the article:

"Conservative campaign spokeswoman Chelsea Tucker said Monday with the Star’s analysis, “Once we receive the costing from PBO, we will be releasing our costing platform very soon.”

 

With less than two weeks to go until election day, and they are still being vague.

 

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2 hours ago, deicer said:

With less than two weeks to go until election day, and they are still being vague.

So which would be worse? Being disingenuous or “vague”? Imo, the conservatives will let an unbiased source, the PBO, cost their plan, as a whole, rather than a self serving party pick and choose snippets of the platform. 
btw another $2 billion picked out of thin air by the libs to buy more votes….was this costed somewhere?
https://torontosun.com/news/national/one-month-extension-of-canada-recovery-benefit-to-cost-2-billion-report

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So you complain about a candidate that will cost you more, but give it to the people, yet you support a candidate that will cost you even more all while cutting services?

https://financialpost.com/globe-newswire/clc-what-otoole-isnt-telling-you-conservative-health-care-promises-made-to-be-broken

CLC -- What O'Toole Isn't Telling You: Conservative Health Care Promises Made to be Broken

 

OTTAWA, Sept. 07, 2021 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) — Erin O’Toole’s fiscal plan and promises to balance the budget in ten years doesn’t add up, and that could mean Conservative cuts to health care and vital public services.

“Mr. O’Toole’s message discipline is admirable, but experts are lining up to say his promises simply don’t add up,” said Bea Bruske, president of the Canadian Labour Congress. “Erin O’Toole is trying to hide his future cuts behind pleasant rhetoric.”

Columnist Stephen Maher asked in this weeks’ Maclean’s: “Now that he is the front runner, O’Toole has a lot of questions to answer, about the economy, climate, race, gun control, private health care…”

In the Hill Times, Michael Harris wrote: “The Conservative leader’s commitments to gun control, women’s empowerment, and fiscal responsibility don’t stand up to scrutiny.”

A few days before that, when asked on CTV’s Power Play, “Do you buy Erin O’Toole’s numbers in terms of economic growth?”, former Deputy Parliamentary Budget Officer Mostafa Askari replied: “No. Absolutely not. We have not had 3% sustained growth in Canada for the past 25-30 years.”

Bruske also noted that when he was in Stephen Harper’s Conservative cabinet, O’Toole cut billions from health care while slashing taxes for profitable corporations. Harper had also promised not to cut health care during an election campaign, and then broke his promise once elected.

“If you examine Mr. O’Toole’s plan closely, you find that his priorities are all wrong,” concluded Bruske. “Conservatives have no plan for alleviating inequality, strengthening public health care or bolstering our social safety net so it’s ready for the next crisis – whether health or climate related.”

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21 minutes ago, st27 said:

You have your sources…..first the Star, now the CLC?……ignore Trudeau’s record and lack of scrutiny of jagmeets utopia…..  We can go back and forth all day, fill yer boots …. I’m done here.

You have highlighted my assertion that I have posted many times.

They are all greasy.

Now I will once again reiterate, we need to vote 'For' something, rather than 'Against' something.

As you said, we can go back and forth all day.  So when you see the majority of posting being anti-Trudeau, I hope all realize that there is as much against all other candidates as well.

So let's vote on what will keep Canada the number one country in the world.

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"Erin O’Toole’s fiscal plan and promises to balance the budget in ten years doesn’t add up, and that could mean Conservative cuts to health care and vital public services."

 

Or maybe he will stop paying people to sit at home while employers scroungs for employees. Imagine an intelligent concept like that. 

Another scaremonger article.

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On 9/6/2021 at 1:09 PM, deicer said:

As long as you are comparing apples to apples.

Historically all parties have spent like drunken sailors.

My point is that when it comes to the issues in this election, only one party is being up front with what it will actually cost while the others are just saying 'trust us'.

 

 

That may be true but they don't say how we will be able to replay the money.  Afterall they have a leader who boasts about doesn’t think about monetary policy . (maybe he doesn't know what that is)

 What is Monetary Policy? - Bank of Canada

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On 9/8/2021 at 7:44 AM, deicer said:

With every country borrowing and owing to every other country, does debt even matter anymore?

They've never repossessed a country, just look at what Greece went through with the E.U.

 

Are you aware of what happened to their economy with the massive restructuring they went through. The jobs lost, businesses bankrupt, etc. Funny how those minor details get glossed over.

Don't fall victim to those who will spend us into oblivion. We have a chance to stop this type of thinking in this election.

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Tribute must be paid to the Greek people who endured an array of unpopular reforms and deep austerity measures, including salary and pension cuts, in order to extricate their country from financial turmoil.

Yup, can hardly wait for our citizens to recieve our tributes.

Sothere is a limit with lavish social programs…..the taxpayer ended paying more  in the end…..the result of running out of other people’s money.

I just wish the politicians who created the mess are around to clean it up and have the guts to say they made a mistake.

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Lost on the campaign trail…..a serious reflection of the past record of the liberals.

This item alone should give pause for concern to voters:

Quote

Buried on page 65 of the Liberal platform is a promise to introduce legislation to “combat serious forms of harmful online content.” It may seem innocuous enough given its lack of prominence in the document and the fact that most Canadians likely agree that things like terrorist content and child pornography are bad. But in reality, controlling how Canadians interact with each other online is one of Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau’s top priorities. And it poses a direct threat to free speech in this country.

On Nov. 3, 2020, in the midst of the pandemic’s second wave, instead of focusing on protecting Canadians , the government was introducing Bill C-10 , an act to amend the Broadcasting Act. Again, it sounded pretty innocuous. The bill was ostensibly designed to bring streaming services, such as Netflix, under the purview of the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC).

It was a terrible idea on its own, but initially didn’t seem like it would affect most people’s lives, because it specifically exempted user-generated content uploaded to social media sites from being subject to regulation. In fact, Heritage Minister Steven Guilbeault was adamant that, “We’re not particularly interested in … when my great-uncle posts pictures of his cats.”

But the bill soon got altered in committee . The exemption for user-generated content was removed and other additions were made that could potentially have given the CRTC control over podcasts, online videos, news websites and more. Though the government eventually added a clause excluding users from CRTC oversight, the content they posted would have still been fair game.

The Grits rammed C-10 through the House of Commons despite dire warnings from privacy and free speech advocates that it would give the broadcast regulator too much power to limit the rights of average citizens. And the Liberals did not stop there.

On June 23, right before the House adjourned for the summer, the Trudeau government introduced Bill C-36 . The legislation, which was aimed at cracking down on online hate, would have essentially reinstated Sec. 13 of the Canadian Human Rights Act, a major impediment to free speech that allowed the quasi-judicial Canadian Human Rights Tribunal to make decisions on the limits of free expression based on a vague and overly broad definition of hate speech.

Sec. 13 was often criticized for putting important matters of free speech in the hands of a kangaroo court and for being used by certain groups to silence views they disagreed with. 

It would charge a new “digital safety commissioner of Canada,” with monitoring “online communication service providers” — including sites such as Facebook, Twitter, TikTok and Pornhub — for illegal content.

The sites would be required to remove the offending material within 24 hours, which would act as an incentive for platforms to abide by any requests that come along, rather than consider their merits. And the commissioner would have the power to send inspectors into workplaces (and even private residences if they obtain a warrant), to search for documents, software and other information, which could violate Canadians’ right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure.

The Liberals also propose to create new bodies to adjudicate disputes, with the power to hold hearings behind closed doors. As law Prof. Michael Geist described it , the plans “pick up where Bill C-10 left off, treating freedom of expression as a danger to be constrained through regulations and the creation of a bureaucratic super-structure that includes a new digital safety commission, digital tribunal to rule on content removal and social media regulation advisory board.”

Taken together, the three bills pose a clear and present threat to freedom of expression. And it’s not hard to see where this is all going. Eventually, the government will realize that a lot of unsavoury speech takes place on foreign websites that cannot be controlled by Canadian authorities. It would not be much of a stretch to implement a large-scale censorship apparatus to prevent Canadians from accessing those sites, as the United Kingdom has done .

Today is an opportune day to reflect on these policy goals, as it’s the 20th anniversary of 9/11. In the two decades since those attacks, we have seen a monumental increase in global surveillance, with governments — both democratic and autocratic — hoovering large amounts of data from the internet. Combining a historically unprecedented surveillance state with a ministry responsible for determining the limits of acceptable discourse shows just how little respect Canada’s government has for civil liberties.

Luckily, none of the Liberal bills have become law — two died on the order paper (one in the Senate, the other in the Commons) when the election was called and the third was yet to be finalized — but if Trudeau is re-elected, you can bet that they will. The choice is in the hands of Canadian voters.

 

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On 9/10/2021 at 9:28 AM, deicer said:

Thanks for letting us know how wonderful it has been for Greece Mr. De-Icer. And we can expect the eventual same from the policies of you and the politicians you support. Read below on the remarkable situation overspending did for Greece. Beware of people intentionally misleading you. And remember that when you vote.

How bad are things for the people of Greece?

By Lucy Rodgers & Nassos Stylianou
BBC News

Published
16 July 2015
 

The people of Greece are facing further years of economic hardship following a Eurozone agreement over the terms of a third bailout.

The deal included more tax rises and spending cuts, despite the Syriza government coming to power promising to end what it described as the "humiliation and pain" of austerity.

With the country having already endured years of economic contraction since the global downturn, just how does Greece's ordeal compare with other recessions and how have the lives of the country's people been affected?

line

The long recession

It is now generally agreed that Greece has experienced an economic crisis on the scale of the US Great Depression of the 1930s.

According to the Greek government's own figures, the economy first contracted in the final quarter of 2008 and - apart from some weak growth in 2014 - has been shrinking ever since. The recession has cut the size of the Greek economy by around a quarter, the largest contraction of an advanced economy since the 1950s.

Greek recession compared to Great depression chart

Although the Greek recession has not been quite as deep as the Great Depression from peak to trough, it has gone on longer and many observers now believe Greek GDP will drop further in 2015.

Dwindling jobs

Greek shipyard workerIMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES

Jobs are increasingly difficult to come by in Greece - especially for the young. While a quarter of the population are out of work, youth unemployment is running much higher.

Half of those under 25 are out of work. In some regions of western Greece, the youth unemployment rate is well above 60%.

Unemployment by age group, Greece

To make matters worse, long-term unemployment is at particularly high levels in Greece.

Being out of work for significant periods of time has severe consequences, according to a report by the European Parliament. The longer a person is unemployed, the less employable they become. Re-entering the workforce also becomes more difficult and more expensive.

Greece and euro area long term unemployment

Young people have been particularly affected by long-term unemployment: one out of three has been jobless for more than a year.

After two years out of work, the unemployed also lose their health insurance.

 

This persistent unemployment also means pension funds receive fewer contributions from the working population. As more Greeks are without jobs, more pensioners are having to sustain families on a reduced income.

According to the latest figures from the Greek government, 45% of pensioners receive monthly payments below the poverty line of €665.

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Plummeting income

Greek woman in streetIMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES

The Greek people are also facing dropping wages.

In the five years from 2008 to 2013, Greeks became on average 40% poorer, according to data from the country's statistical agency analysed by Reuters. As well as job losses and wage cuts, the decline can also be explained by steep cuts in workers' compensation and social benefits.

In 2014, disposable household income in Greece sunk to below 2003 levels.

Chart showing falling incomes in Greece
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Rising poverty

homeless man in GreeceIMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES

Like during all recessions, the poor and vulnerable have been hardest hit.

One in five Greeks are experiencing severe material deprivation, a figure that has nearly doubled since 2008.

Almost four million people living in Greece, more than a third of the country's total population, were classed as being 'at risk of poverty or social exclusion' in 2014.

Chart showing the % of Greeks experiencing severe deprivation

According to Dr Panos Tsakloglou, economist and professor at the Athens University of Economics and Business, the crisis has exposed Greece's lack of social safety nets.

"The welfare state in Greece has historically been very weak, driven primarily by clientelistic calculations rather than an assessment of needs. In the past this was not really urgent because there were rarely any particularly explosive social conditions. The family was substituting the welfare state," he told the BBC.

Typically, if a young person lost his or her job or could not find a job after graduating, they would receive support from the family until their situation improved.

But as more and more people have become jobless and with pensions slashed as part of the austerity imposed on Greece from its creditors, ordinary Greeks are feeling the impact.

"This has led to many more unemployed people falling into poverty much faster," Dr Tsakloglou said.

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Cuts to essential services

Greek man in hospitalIMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES

Healthcare is one of the public services that has been hit hardest by the crisis. An estimated 800,000 Greeks are without medical access due to a lack of insurance or poverty.

A 2014 report in the Lancet medical journal highlighted the devastating social and health consequences of the financial crisis and resulting austerity on the country's population.

At a time of heightened demand, the report said, "the scale and speed of imposed change have constrained the capacity of the public health system to respond to the needs of the population".

chart showing unmet medical need in Greece

While a number of social initiatives and volunteer-led health clinics have emerged to ease the burden, many drug prevention and treatment centres and psychiatric clinics have been forced to close due to budget cuts.

HIV infections among injecting drug users rose from 15 in 2009 to 484 people in 2012.

Chart showing health expenditure in Greece and the Euro area
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Mental wellbeing

The crisis also appears to have taken its toll on people's wellbeing.

Figures suggest that the prevalence of major depression almost trebled from 3% to 8% of the population in the three years to 2011, during the onset of the crisis.

While starting from a low initial figure, the suicide rate rose by 35% in Greece between 2010 and 2012, according to a study published in the British Medical Journal.

Chart showing suicide rates in Greece

Researchers concluded that suicides among those of working age coincided with austerity measures.

Greece's public and non-profit mental health service providers have been forced to scale back operations, shut down, or reduce staff, while plans for development of child psychiatric services have been abandoned.

Funding for mental health decreased by 20% between 2010 and 2011, and by a further 55% the following year.

line

The brain drain

Young people in GreeceIMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES

Faced with the prospect of dwindling incomes or unemployment, many Greeks have been forced to look for work elsewhere. In the last five years, Greece's population has declined, falling by about 400,000.

A 2013 study found that more than 120,000 professionals, including doctors, engineers and scientists, had left Greece since the start of the crisis in 2010.

chart showing Greek migration

A more recent European University Institute survey found that of those who emigrated, nine in 10 hold a university degree and more than 60% of those have a master's degree, while 11% hold a PhD.

Foteini Ploumbi was in her early thirties when she lost her job as a warehouse supervisor in Athens after the owner could no longer afford to pay his staff.

After a year looking for a new job in Greece, she moved to the UK in 2013 and immediately found work as a business analyst in London.

"I had no choice but leave if I wanted to work, I had no prospect of employment in Greece. I would love to go back, my whole life is back there. But logic stops me from returning at the moment," she said.

"In the UK, I can get by - I can't even do that in Greece."

How bad are things for the people of Greece? - BBC News

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