Afghanistan

[Maverick]

What a mess...

 

[boestar]

So what did you think was going to happen.  Sign a deal with the devil and here ya go.  Another Trump legacy

 

[Junior]

Amazing footage. I don't know if I could ever get the courage to taxi in a situation like that. I wonder if there was a higher ranking non-pilot giving orders.

[Super 80]

I suspect they feared that if they stopped they would be completely overrun.

[chaster]

7 hours ago, boestar said:

So what did you think was going to happen.  Sign a deal with the devil and here ya go.  Another Trump legacy

 

More Blame Game! Hows Trump have anything to do with this! This goes back to 2001!

[moeman]

Human Remains Found In Wheel Arch Of US Plane That Left Kabul

 

Dominic Smithers

 

Published 13:54, 17 August 2021 BST
| Last updated 16:13, 17 August 2021 BST

Human remains have been found in the wheel arch of a US military plane that left Kabul yesterday, it has been confirmed.

According to ABC News, a US official stated that after landing at al Udeid air base in Qatar on Monday (16 August), the remains were found inside the wheel well of the C-17 military plane.

It was part of the wave of evacuation flights following the resurgence of the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Footage of the aircraft was widely shared on social media, showing hundreds of people clinging onto its side as it left Kabul's airport.

 

Hundreds of people clung onto the plane as it left Kabul. Credit: Twitter

Shortly after the footage emerged, it was reported that people had tragically died after falling from the aircraft shortly after take-off.

A Kabul news agency stated: "Locals near Kabul airport claim that three young men who were holding themselves tightly in the wheels of an aeroplane fell on top of people's houses.

"One of the locals confirmed this and said that the fall of these people made a loud and terrifying noise."

[Airband]

Further to above:

American pilots and troops were forced to make on-the-spot decisions during the panic at the airport on Sunday and Monday. Another C-17 transport plane left Kabul late Sunday night with 640 people crowded on board, more than double the planned number, military officials said, after hundreds of Afghans who had been cleared by the State Department to be evacuated surged onto loading ramps. The pilots, determining that the immense aircraft could handle the load, decided to take off, officials said. That plane landed safely at its destination with the Afghans aboard.

But the people who tried the next day on a different C-17 were not so fortunate.

Early Monday morning, the gray Air Force plane — call sign REACH885 — descended onto the runway. The lumbering jet was carrying equipment and supplies for the U.S. Marines and soldiers on the ground securing the airport and helping with the evacuation of thousands of Americans and Afghans.

Minutes after the plane touched down, rolled to a stop and lowered its rear ramp, hundreds, perhaps thousands of Afghans, rushed forward as the small crew watched in alarm.

The crew was aware of what had happened the night before. On Monday morning, the number of people at the airport clamoring to get onto flights had swelled. The crew members feared for their safety, jumped back up into the plane and pulled up the loading ramp before they had finished unloading, officials said.

By then, throngs of Afghans had climbed aboard the wings of the plane and, unbeknown to the crew, officials said, into the wheel well into which the landing gear would fold after takeoff.

The crew contacted air traffic control, operated by U.S. military personnel, and the plane was cleared for takeoff, after spending only minutes on the ground.

Mindful of the people hanging onto the plane, the pilots taxied slowly at first. Military Humvees rushed alongside trying to chase people away and off the plane. Two Apache helicopter gunships flew low, seeking to scare some people away from the plane or push them off with their powerful rotor wash.

REACH885 accelerated and was airborne.

Minutes later, however, the pilot and co-pilot realized they had a serious problem: The landing gear would not fully retract. They sent one of the crew members down to peer through a small porthole that allows them to view potential problems in the wheel well while aloft.

It was then the crew saw the remains of an undetermined number of Afghans who had stowed away in the wheel well — apparently crushed by the landing gear. Scenes captured in videos of the flight showed other people plunging to their death.

After the four-hour flight, the plane landed at its destination, Al Udeid Air Base in Qatar, which has become the hub for receiving passengers, including Americans and Afghans, eventually bound for the United States.

Alerted of the tragedy on board, mental health counselors and chaplains met the anguished crew members as they disembarked.

“Safety officials are doing due diligence to better understand how events unfolded,” Ann Stefanek, an Air Force spokeswoman, said in the statement.

[Jaydee]

[A330PilotCanada]

12 hours ago, Airband said:

Further to above:

American pilots and troops were forced to make on-the-spot decisions during the panic at the airport on Sunday and Monday. Another C-17 transport plane left Kabul late Sunday night with 640 people crowded on board, more than double the planned number, military officials said, after hundreds of Afghans who had been cleared by the State Department to be evacuated surged onto loading ramps. The pilots, determining that the immense aircraft could handle the load, decided to take off, officials said. That plane landed safely at its destination with the Afghans aboard.

But the people who tried the next day on a different C-17 were not so fortunate.

Early Monday morning, the gray Air Force plane — call sign REACH885 — descended onto the runway. The lumbering jet was carrying equipment and supplies for the U.S. Marines and soldiers on the ground securing the airport and helping with the evacuation of thousands of Americans and Afghans.

Minutes after the plane touched down, rolled to a stop and lowered its rear ramp, hundreds, perhaps thousands of Afghans, rushed forward as the small crew watched in alarm.

The crew was aware of what had happened the night before. On Monday morning, the number of people at the airport clamoring to get onto flights had swelled. The crew members feared for their safety, jumped back up into the plane and pulled up the loading ramp before they had finished unloading, officials said.

By then, throngs of Afghans had climbed aboard the wings of the plane and, unbeknown to the crew, officials said, into the wheel well into which the landing gear would fold after takeoff.

The crew contacted air traffic control, operated by U.S. military personnel, and the plane was cleared for takeoff, after spending only minutes on the ground.

Mindful of the people hanging onto the plane, the pilots taxied slowly at first. Military Humvees rushed alongside trying to chase people away and off the plane. Two Apache helicopter gunships flew low, seeking to scare some people away from the plane or push them off with their powerful rotor wash.

REACH885 accelerated and was airborne.

Minutes later, however, the pilot and co-pilot realized they had a serious problem: The landing gear would not fully retract. They sent one of the crew members down to peer through a small porthole that allows them to view potential problems in the wheel well while aloft.

It was then the crew saw the remains of an undetermined number of Afghans who had stowed away in the wheel well — apparently crushed by the landing gear. Scenes captured in videos of the flight showed other people plunging to their death.

After the four-hour flight, the plane landed at its destination, Al Udeid Air Base in Qatar, which has become the hub for receiving passengers, including Americans and Afghans, eventually bound for the United States.

Alerted of the tragedy on board, mental health counselors and chaplains met the anguished crew members as they disembarked.

“Safety officials are doing due diligence to better understand how events unfolded,” Ann Stefanek, an Air Force spokeswoman, said in the statement.

Good Morning Airband:

I will take the liberty of adding this to your post:

Hear air traffic controller's stunned reaction to C-17 flight load as it leaves Afghanistan
CNN's Chris Cuomo examines the audio of an air traffic controller reacting to the amount of people on a C-17 plane leaving Afghanistan.

https://apple.news/AqHD0-zSATfi0dtxQ3xfv1w

[Seeker]

This withdrawal from Afghanistan will go down in history as one of the most monumental failures of US foreign policy ever.

I understand the decision to withdraw but to do it such a disorderly and haphazard process is embarrasing.

 

[Cargoagent]

The whole incursion into Afghanistan was doomed from the start. After invading there was no plan to exit. Were the Americans going to stay forever? What would constitute a victory? Were they just going in after the 9/11 plotters? Someone in the Pentagon should have been asking those kinds of questions of the politicians.

Trump wanting to withdraw the troops was not a bad idea, it has just been implemented badly.

No one has been able to tame Afghanistan for hundreds if not thousands of years. The country is just a collection of tribal factions willing to turn on each other at a moments notice. The Taliban being one of the larger and stronger factions was able to unite enough other factions to kick out the Western forces. They will control the cities and leave the countryside to the different tribal factions to fight over.

The Americans did not learn from Vietnam, they did not learn from Iraq and they didn't learn from Afghanistan. You can not fight a war using conventional forces and tactics against an unconventional enemy. When the troops do not know who is friend and who is foe you have already lost the battle.  When rules of engagement hobble the effectiveness of your troops, you have already lost the battle.

Afghanistan will go back to harboring and training terrorists with Pakistan's help and in a number of years we will have another 9/11 type event.

[GDR]

I have to wonder why the US was able to rescue 640 people from Afghanistan and we only manage 106. Man do I feel for those people, sitting here in Canada in my very comfortable and secure lifestyle.  

[deicer]

While many may not like the author, he sums it up succinctly.

https://www.michaelmoore.com/p/peeling-the-american-onion

Peeling The American Onion

It Ain't Over 'Til The Last Burger King Leaves Kandahar

Victory In Afghanistan! A Burger King trailer arrives at Bagram Airbase in 2004 (Photo: Vincent James via Getty Images)

 

Most won’t say it, so I will:

America has thankfully lost another war. Let’s make this the last. 

This is nothing here to celebrate. This should only be a monumental gut-check moment of serious reflection and a desire to seek redemption for ourselves. We don’t need to spend a single minute right now analyzing how Biden has or has not messed up while bravely handling the end of this mess he was handed — including his incredible private negotiations all this week with the Taliban leaders to ensure that not a single enemy combatant from the occupying force (that would be us; e.g., U.S. soldiers and spies and embassy staff), will be harmed. And Biden so far has gotten every American and foreign journalist out alive, plus a promise from the Taliban that those who stay to cover it will not be harmed. And not a single one has! Usually a force like the Taliban rushes in killing every enemy in sight. That has not happened! And we will learn that it was because of the negotiating skills and smarts of the Biden team that there was no mass slaughter. This is not Dunkirk.

Help Us Enrich Uranium

Dozens of planes have safely taken off all week — and not one of them has been shot down. None of our troops in this chaotic situation have been killed. Despite the breathless shrieks of panic from maleducated journalists who think they’re covering the Taliban of the 1990s (Jake Tapper on CNN keeps making references to “beheadings“ and how girls might be “kidnapped” and “raped” and forced to become “child brides”), none of this seems to be happening.  I do not want to hear how we “need to study” what went wrong with this Taliban victory and our evacuation because (switching to all caps because I can’t scream this loud enough): WE ARE NEVER GOING TO FIND OURSELVES IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS AGAIN BECAUSE OUR DAYS OF INVADING AND TAKING OVER COUNTRIES MUST END. RIGHT? RIGHT!!

Just look at this:

Korea.
Vietnam.
Cambodia.
Iraq (1991).
Iraq (2003).
Afghanistan.

There are two themes that run through this list of countries we’ve invaded since World War II. 

One, none of them ever invaded us or posed any kind of threat to our lives — the only true justification to ever use armed force. 

And number two, they ain’t white. Since May 8, 1945, for some reason, we only kill people of color. Probably just a co-inky-dinky.

As with the Viet Cong in Vietnam, we were defeated in Afghanistan by a rag-tag army that did not own a single helicopter, not a single jet fighter, no stealth bombers, no missiles, no napalm, no Burger King at the PX, not one air conditioned tent — not one! — not a goddamn tank in sight, just a bunch of guys with beards in pick-up trucks firing bullets into the air. Oh, and one other similarity with Vietnam — it was their country! Not ours. We were the invaders. In Vietnam we killed 2 million people. In Afghanistan, estimates of the dead go as high as 250,000. In Iraq we killed nearly a million (going back to Bill Clinton’s civilian bombing campaign). 

We spent over $2.4 trillion in Afghanistan for 20 years while the poor in America went without food, medical care, decent schools. The water in the Black-majority city of Flint was poisoned by the Governor. A thousand people shot by the police in the U.S. each year. 

We sacrificed over 2,400 American lives to invade a country where Bin Laden was nowhere to be found. Bush said early on he no longer had any interest in capturing him. In 2011, Obama’s seal team found him in a house just down the road from Pakistan’s “West Point”. Who woulda thought!

What a tragic mess. Defund the military-industrial complex, defund the NSA, defund Homeland Security. They sent our young troops to their deaths. For shame! No Afghan attacked the World Trade Center. 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia! Not from Afghanistan, not Iraq, not Iran. How come “Bandar Bush” — the Saudi Royal Family’s tender nickname for their longtime friend, George W. Bush — why didn’t Bush attack Saudi Arabia? Oh. Right. They have something we need. Fill ‘er up!

So, yes, we lost this stupid, senseless war and I’m happy that it has finally ended. Our fake Afghanistan Army couldn’t wait for us to leave — and, as soon as we did, the Afghan soldiers stripped off their fake Army costumes we gave them, threw them to the ground and spit on them. They joined the Taliban in the streets in celebration. The Taliban did not shoot a single one of them. The Afghan interpreters and others who colluded with the enemy, the USA, for 20 years — yes, they might be in trouble (just like if Russia invaded Alaska and a bunch of Alaskans collaborated with them and after the Russians left some Americans might want retribution from the collaborators). You get that, right? 

The pundits on TV wail: “We’ve abandoned our Afghan helpers! No one will ever trust us again! No one will ever believe us! Our word is no good!!”

EXACTLY! Correct! Yessss! We should never be believed! Note to the rest of the world: You see us coming? RUN! Nothing but tragedy awaits you. Do NOT help us. If we sign a climate agreement, we will not follow it! If we sign a nuclear deal with your mullahs, don’t believe it. It only means we’re getting ready to bomb you. And you should know that when it comes to we, the American public, there is not a single morning where we ever wake up thinking about you or giving a rat’s ass whether 80% of your people live in a state of oppressive abject poverty. It’s always only about us, baby — and what YOU can do for US, for our AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE! 

And by the way, make sure there’s always a roof where we can land that goddamn escape helicopter when we need to get the F outta Dodge!

It’s always Saigon Time in America. 

P.S. May our troops and the Afghan civilians someday forgive us. Much condolences and love to all families who lost loved ones in this disgustingly sad war. I can only imagine how you all have felt this week. Nineteen of our American veterans commit suicide every single day. Please, don’t leave us. I/we will not abandon you. (If you need to talk to someone, call 800-273-8255).

[Airband]

11 hours ago, deicer said:

And we will learn that it was because of the negotiating skills and smarts of the Biden team that there was no mass slaughter. This is not Dunkirk.

Absolute genius - have Jill clear mantel space for the Nobel Peace Prize.

[Kasey]

19 hours ago, GDR said:

I have to wonder why the US was able to rescue 640 people from Afghanistan and we only manage 106. Man do I feel for those people, sitting here in Canada in my very comfortable and secure lifestyle.  

The Brits did this..........

"Efforts to evacuate Britons and eligible Afghans from Kabul are improving, with more than 1,700 people airlifted out in the past 24 hours", the armed forces minister has said.

[deicer]

The Americans have been doing a better job than you think...

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/22/infographic-how-many-people-have-been-evacuated-from-afghanistan-interactive

Infographic: How many people evacuated from Afghanistan so far?

A week after the Taliban takeover, at least 28,000 people have been evacuated from Afghanistan, but tens of thousands more are still waiting.

Thousands of people have tried to flee Afghanistan, with many crushed to death, as Afghans fear reprisals and a return to a strict rule under the Taliban, which retook the country last weekend after two decades.

Crowds have grown at the airport in the heat and dust over the past week, hindering operations as the United States and other nations attempt to evacuate thousands of their diplomats and civilians as well as numerous Afghans who worked for them.

Mothers, fathers and children have pushed up against concrete blast walls in the crush as they seek to get a flight out.

According to official statements and local reports, at least 28,000 people have been evacuated so far.

(Al Jazeera)

The US, which has stationed thousands of troops to secure the airport, has set a deadline to complete the evacuations by August 31. But there are up to 15,000 Americans and 50,000 to 60,000 Afghan allies who need to be evacuated, according to the Biden administration.

Army Major General William Taylor, with the US military’s Joint Staff, told a Pentagon briefing that 5,800 US troops remain at the airport and that the facility “remains secure”.

Abdul Qahar Balkhi from the Taliban’s Cultural Commission blamed the US for the chaos at the airport, in an interview with Al Jazeera.

“It is very unfortunate for people to be rushing to the airport the way they are at the moment,” Balkhi said.

“We have announced a general amnesty for everyone, in the security forces from the senior to the junior level. This fear, this hysteria that has taken place is unfounded,” he added.

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken on Saturday said 13 countries have thus far agreed to at least temporarily host at-risk Afghans evacuated from Afghanistan.

Blinken said in a statement that potential Afghan refugees not already cleared for resettlement in the United States will be housed at facilities in Albania, Canada, Colombia, Costa Rica, Chile, Kosovo, North Macedonia, Mexico, Poland, Qatar, Rwanda, Ukraine and Uganda.

Transit countries include Bahrain, the United Kingdom, Denmark, Germany, Italy, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Qatar, Tajikistan, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates and Uzbekistan.

President Joe Biden is expected to provide an update on Sunday on the evacuation of American citizens and refugees from Afghanistan, the White House said.

 

[Airband]

On 8/22/2021 at 1:37 PM, deicer said:

The Americans have been doing a better job than you think...

America will be judged not by how many it got out, but how many it left behind.

[dagger]

11 hours ago, Airband said:

America will be judged not by how many it got out, but how many it left behind.

Yes, and no. You can't tell with some if there was a reasonable hope of getting them out in any scenario that didn't involve a shooting war.

 

Also, the scope of what has been happening the past 72 to 96 hours - the sheer numbers being airlifted - is becoming a story in itself. This is the biggest airlift since the US left Saigon, and it's beginning to look at bit like Berlin 48. Just follow all the aircraft on Flightradar24 and other sites. Absolutely remarkable. 

[AIP]

12 hours ago, Airband said:

America will be judged not by how many it got out, but how many it left behind.

What about Canada ? 

People fighting for their lives, and all we can come up with is not enough seatbelts ???

"Wear Red", that's embarrassing.

[dagger]

12 minutes ago, AIP said:

What about Canada ?

People fighting for their lives, and all we can come up with is not enough seatbelts ???

"Wear Red", that's embarrassing.

Old news. There is a lot of this negative handover from the first few days. There were over 400 on an RCAF flight yesterday and over 500 on one overnight. 

 

[Airband]

2 hours ago, dagger said:

it's beginning to look at bit like Berlin 48.

or Alamo 36.

[FireFox]

9 hours ago, Airband said:

or Alamo 36.

The term that I heard which sums it up rather well...it's a "cluster bug." All on Joe.

[Maverick]

Just imagine if we would have had a government that was focusing on Covid measures and the Afghanistan situation instead of campaigning for a power grab election?

 

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/canada-halts-afghanistan-evacuations-deadline-looms-79656228

[deicer]

On 8/24/2021 at 11:24 AM, dagger said:

Yes, and no. You can't tell with some if there was a reasonable hope of getting them out in any scenario that didn't involve a shooting war.

 

Also, the scope of what has been happening the past 72 to 96 hours - the sheer numbers being airlifted - is becoming a story in itself. This is the biggest airlift since the US left Saigon, and it's beginning to look at bit like Berlin 48. Just follow all the aircraft on Flightradar24 and other sites. Absolutely remarkable. 

And there are those who don't want to leave as they are making a shitton of money....

[deicer]

Look at your young men fighting
Look at your women crying
Look at your young men dying
The way they've always done before

 

Look at the hate we're breeding
Look at the fear we're feeding
Look at the lives we're leading
The way we've always done before

 

My hands are tied
The billions shift from side to side
And the wars go on with brainwashed pride
For the love of God and our human rights
And all these things are swept aside
By bloody hands time can't deny
And are washed away by your genocide
And history hides the lies of our civil wars

 

D'you wear a black armband
When they shot the man
Who said "peace could last forever"
And in my first memories
They shot Kennedy
I went numb when I learned to see
So I never fell for Vietnam
We got the wall of D.C. to remind us all
That you can't trust freedom
When it's not in your hands
When everybody's fightin'
For their promised land
And

 

I don't need your civil war
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor
Your power hungry sellin' soldiers
In a human grocery store
Ain't that fresh
I don't need your civil war
Ow, oh no, no, no, no, no

 

Look at the shoes you're filling
Look at the blood we're spilling
Look at the world we're killing
The way we've always done before
Look in the doubt we've wallowed
Look at the leaders we've followed
Look at the lies we've swallowed
And I don't want to hear no more

 

My hands are tied
For all I've seen has changed my mind
But still the wars go on as the years go by
With no love of God or human rights
'Cause all these dreams are swept aside
By bloody hands of the hypnotized
Who carry the cross of homicide
And history bears the scars of our civil wars

 

I don't need your civil war
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor
Your power hungry sellin' soldiers
In a human grocery store
Ain't that fresh
I don't need your civil war
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
I don't need your civil war
I don't need your civil war
Your power hungry sellin' soldiers
In a human grocery store
Ain't that fresh
I don't need your civil war
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no uh-oh-uh, no uh-oh, uh no
I don't need one more war

I don't need one more war

No, no, no, no uh-oh-uh, no uh-oh, uh no
Whaz so civil 'bout war anyway?